Working with Linked Prims (longish)

What follows is an OLD post, August of 2003, that has been recently re-activated. Check the dates on all the following posts carefully.

Now first of all, I'm quite new here -- I've only been on for a week now. So if anything I'm looking for already exists, I'd be very happy just to know it!

First, what I've observed...

1) In playing with linked objects, they seem to me to be stored in a linked list (pardon the pun). If you add a new prim to a linked group, it gets added to the list. If you link two linked groups together, they get combined into one list. Unlinking that list gives you a lot of individual prims, and not the two groups you linked together.

2) You can't remove a single prim from a group. To do so, you have to unlink the entire group, then shift-click each prim except the one you want to remove, and re-link. I don't have the cash to make huge groups, but this seems to me to be a big problem for large projects.

3) Once you have a number of prims linked together, you can't directly edit any of the prims without unlinking the group. (This is the one I hope I'm the most wrong about... That there IS some way to do this.) The only way around this problem is to do the same routine as in #2, but include the edited prim in the re-link.


Now, based on this (and I could be wrong about some of it! Let me know if I am...) I want to make a few feature suggestions. None of them are a simple change, but they would greatly simplify managing large prim-count projects...

A) Change the link list into a tree. This means that a previously linked group can be linked into a new group as a unit. Un-linking the new group doesn't unlink the old one, it just separates it. Any number of groups can be linked this way, and still maintain their own internal families/linkages. Also, groups can be nested inside groups to any (or a set) depth. Child groups are treated as a single object by the group they belong to for purposes of rotation, etc.

B) List view window. This can be done in several different ways...

B-1) Linked list list. If (A) can't be/isn't done, then have a window with a list of all prims in a selected linked group, and to be able to unlink or edit them in situ.

B-2) Nested tree list. If (A) can be/is done, then have the same window as in B-2 but show nested groups as folders.

B-3) Global owned object list. Same window as (B-1 and B-2) but listing all of the prims that you own, and properties like name, location, mass, taxes, etc. This would have to be limited to the current sim's objects only. (Since the data about prims in other sims isn't available without going there.) You should be able to delete a prim from this list, or open up editing on it. (This would be WONDERFUL for getting at those prims that have dropped below the ground or that are buried among others.)

B-4) All of the above. The (sim-)global object list from (B-3) with linked groups listed as a folders containing all the associated prims. With a treed system of prim linkages in place, these folders would nest. A powerful management tool in a single window. This window could have other statistical information in it, like prim counts, total value/taxes, etc. It should be sortable (bi-directionally) by every column. (So you can see what prims are costing you the most in taxes, for instance.)


Okay. I've typed too much. This is what I get for not having my own machine at home to play, and only being able to get on during lunch at work: I THINK about it. (Problem is being remedied: As I type, a 2.6Ghz AMD with a GeForce4 Ti4200 should be flying towards me!)


~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

As for 2 & 3, you can unlink/edit individual prims. In the edit window, there is a Select Individual radio button. You can select the individual prim from the linked set and unlink, edit the script/texture. You can also link a linked set to a single prim, unlink, and keep the original set you had. But the parent has to be a single prim, not an already linked set.

You linked tree idea would be nice.

I'm glad I missed that Select Individual radio button. It means (to my eyes at least) an instant feature update!!! Hooray! All for me...

As to the linking of groups together... It's uneven enough in its execution that it still seems broke to me. To test, I made two groups of two prims, and then linked the two groups together. When I unlinked, I had four separate prims again. Treeing the linkages would really even this behavior out and make it more predictable and usable.

...But it's also a major change to the underlying code, I bet! I don't expect it to happen.

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

As IronChef already noted, there is a "work-around" (if this was ever considered a problem by the Lindens), and you can get used to it pretty quick. That being said, I'd like to second the idea for linked trees, not for building, but more for how scripts affect linked objects. This would enable us to do many more things than currently possible, such as child rotations in vehicles such as my Propship or Bosozoku's paddlewheel.

The day will come I know, but I'm just impatient.

Tiger, in working with complex objects I've noticed two wonderful shortcuts with selecting/unselecting. Neither addresses the "nested linked objects" problems/potential upgrades, but you may find them useful.

First, when I want to deselect a single object from a large group of linked objects, absolutely the fastest way I've found is simply:

Select linked objects.
Ctrl-Shift-L
Shift-click object to be removed.
Shift-L

Object removed. I prefer this method because I love keyboard shortcuts as opposed to futzing with radio buttons, although SL has so MANY shortcuts that if I accidentally hit some random key combination, something usually goes wack.

Oh yes, that second thing. Instead of shift-clicking a whole bunch of objects to link them all, maneuver the camera so there's nothing behind them but bare ground or blue sky, and then click and drag the mouse to capture them all in a bounding box. This method also selects any prim partially within the box, so you may end up having to deselect some prims if you're trying to just grab, say, one arm and shoulder of your giant dragon sculpture without taking the body along with it.

I hope this helps.

I feel this thread should be revisited ;0 I've been thinking of object trees for a long time (June 2003) and i've not heard much more on the subject in SL or the forums except from this thread I remembered.... I think Tiger Crossing said it very well in his original post so I won't be adding any new suggestions here This is just a reminder.

I noticed in the 1.6 preview build 8, that they have "Added the ability to edit sub-objects of linked sets in place, parent and child included."

This post and all posts after it are current...

( I STILL want tree-structured groupings... )

I totally agree Tiger!!! It is very interesting how close some of your suggestions are to the 1.6 changes though.

McW

basically all the 1.6 changes mean is that "Select Individual" has more options once you select a prim in the linkset. "subsets" doesn't mean anything other than "edit prims in the linkset with out unlinking". the way you edit a subset is you edit a prim in the linkset then you edit another prim in the linkset. it's still all one big linkset same as now.

we really really need a way to link 2 linksets together and when you unlink you end up with 2 linksets again not a million individual prims.

Heh first off "WOW! This is a friggen old thread!" ahem!

ok with that out of my system...

Just resently I noticed in 1.6 a bug with the "Added the ability to edit sub-objects of linked sets in place, parent and child included." You are not able to unlink a single prim anymore.
A Linden has already stated that this is a bug infact.
But as of yet no mention of when this bug will be fixed but I haven't looked thru all the threads just yet to see if it has been mentioned anywhere ealse.

Oh and there was one more thing I had to say...What was it...Oh ya...

"Hi Tiger Crossing!"
*pets*