Prop 127: Support Adobe PDF files

Link to proposal: http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=127

Basically, this is a request to have Adobe PDF format supported in the metaverse. The doors it would open to advertisement and publication alone would be incredible. However, the true benefit to residents lies in being able to create multi-paged items on a single prim AND/OR being able to create information sets to deliver larger amounts of information in a format that is easier to read, less cumbersome, and yes -- prettier.

If you are not familiar with the Adobe PDF, visit Adobe Online's 'What is a PDF' to learn more about them.

Imagine having something like this available to you in SL... maybe for a catalog... maybe as a magazine.... perhaps for a newspaper.... or a book.... or anything you can imagine. What a wonderful addition they would be to Second Life!

Also, unlike many tools, you can now create PDFs online by subscribing to Adobe's 'Create a PDF Online' Service. So not only is this something that can make the metaverse better, it is something that you don't have to own pricy software to use.

Please take a moment to vote on this proposal.

Thank you.

Meh, another thing we need to pay for in order to get quality content up? No thanks...

300 bucks for photoshop, 300 bucks for Poser, perhaps another 100 bucks for decent video production software... 150 bucks for a new video card, 100 bucks for ram...

argh.

LF

No, no a thousand times no!

Isn't SL slow enough for you already?
Soon we will be lagged to death by the new web browser, adding PDF on top would be a nightmare IMO.

Assumptions aside, reading a PDF is done on the client, not the server. There is no reason that a PDF would 'increase lag' any more or less than making a 50 prim 'book' with 'pages' containing images. Indeed, it may well lessen lag depending upon how well LL implements.

Digi -- I suppose if you want to be able to create every kind of content, then yes, you have to have the tools to do so. But a tool like say, PDF Machine at $49 is a heck of a deal considering not only do you no longer have to upload graphics and textures individually to create something, but whatever you create as a PDF is protected against modification in a way that notecards and textures are not presently.

This is what I meant though.

For those of us with low memory machines and slower graphics cards, there is already a huge long wait for things to download and res when one goes to a new area. If there is one of the new HTML pages in the mix, the Lindens have already said that the first time you res it there will be an added "hit" or wait time, (cant wait to see how long that is). If I have to res a PDF doc as well it seems to me that my client will slow yet again.

i.e. - most of my lag *is* client side already.

Besides which, HTML is already being implemented, what would a PDF give the average user over and above the formatted text with images that can be provided that way?

*Please note that I said "average" user.

Several things, actually:

1) PDF permits organization and layout that is impossible at present with HTML (even with CSS).

2) PDF protects your text content in a way that neither the existing system nor HTML can or would (to steal it, you have to work for it, which, while not a perfect solution, is an improvement over just being able to copy/paste).

3) PDF allows for indexing and thumbnailing of content that would be EXTREMELY helpful in the production of catalogs, magazines, newspaper, help and tutorial content, along with any other form of content that requires organization over a threshold of size and does so without the need for you to write additional code to handle it (built in functionality).

4) PDF offers text and graphic compression that is (in most cases, unless you're working with say, Visio diagrams) better than existing gif/jpg compression and that alone will reduce storage/space requirements. This is a benefit you don't see with HTML unless they are building in server-side compression and even then, likely not to the same extent.

I would support this only if the PDF is predefined as a JPEG-2000.

I despise Adobe Reader - it makes my PC and my laptop cry. Another format for JPEG-2000, however, would be fine.

I disagree with all of these except the last one perhaps, but I dont want to get into a battle so I won't answer point for point but leave your entire statement quoted instead.

I am really quite familiar with PDF documents, and i know of these benefits but i would disagree that they are anythign the "average user" (which is what I predicated my disagreement on), especially the average SL user needs or wants.

Also, everyone who works with PDF's knows of the problems they can cause with all the different types there are, the memory requirements, the built i ability to make immense unreadable files and the poor printing performance. Nothing on you personally, but I always find it interesting that these failings of the format are hardly ever mentioned even though they are quite common knowledge. Likely those kind of "problem PDF's" would not have much impact in the kind of implementation we are talking about here.

About the only really relevant use I can think of for having PDF's (and where they do a reasonably good job), which is the creation of manuals or books. Somekind of PDF format for "SL books" I would support, being as I am a book addict/collector.

Just a note... there are several open-source systems that can output PDFs (LaTeX, for example).

That aside, I don't think this is a good idea, simply because of how long Adobe's reader tends to take to run and how badly it lags my system even when I'm not running SL.

Well, as you say, it is hardly worth arguing. However, as a professional working with PDF files on a regular basis, and whose work is published in PDF format, I will simply say I disagree with your characterization of it and leave it at that.

As for uses, books, magazines, newspapes, advertisements, and tutorials are things that readily spring to mind. Having this available would be a great boon to those of us seeking ways to more accurately and artistically present language in the world. A way that, to this point, has been, at best, clumsy.

Yeah, you are kinda winning me over a bit on this. I understand where you are coming from anyway.

Formatting using HTML and having the ability to insert pictures the same way would also go a long way toward that goal though.

The browser within SL will be Firefox-based, right? Ever tried loading a PDF with Firefox? I thought it took a long time with other browsers! It's aweful.
PDFs make my Firefox browser lock up for minutes at a time before eventually loading the PDF. This happens on both winXP computers which I use daily. I have not bothered to try it on my macintosh but I'd wager for the same results.

As a professional using PDF format on a regular basis you never noticed any of these problems?

Personally, I avoid PDFs like the plague because of the above problems.

-Ghoti

Firefox is all I run and I haven't experience any issue. Then again, I'm loaded for bear insofar as the system. I stayed with W2K for a variety of reasons, perhaps that is part of the matter.

Meant to point out (forgot) -- all textures in SL are JPG2000.

Also -- I got an email during my vacation saying this was approved... but the voting page doesn't show it as such. If any Linden types are reading -- why would that happen??

Personally, I absolutely hate PDFs.

They are a proprietary file format, the reader takes forever to load, they're excessively big, and there is no decent free editor for them.

I think HTML support is a good idea, but PDF support would be a pain.

This would be a good time to allow 'no' votes, but I guess casting 'no vote' at all is the same as a 'no' vote.

Personally, I would propose a ban on PDF internet hyperlinks if I could. I wish internet browsers would offer an option to disable these regular-looking hyperlinks that, when clicked, suddenly spawn a 2-minute Adobe Reader start-up.

I say no to this, PDF is a closed format and the official viewer is a memory hog. There is little to be gained from this, not to mention that PDF's will encourage people to make *very* large assets. While HTML isn't secure, neither really is PDF. Security should *never* be the sole reason to implement a feature.

PDF is an IP mine field.