llVolumeDetect being able to do damage.

Nowadays, with all these shields in combat (crazy spawn spamming ones, nopush pads) Simcrashes occur more than often. Not only that but people resort to pushing/orbiting far often making combat in sl more of a drag than fun. This has been like this for a bloody long while.

It even came so far that the only effective way of actually killing shielded people involves lagging the sim out while collisions are duking it out slowly. In my eyes this just isnt fun and not how this versitile world should have combat.

If llVolumeDetect was able to do damage, it would solve EVERYthing. And make combat fun and fair again. Seeing as this would just ignore any shield that would stand in its path to date.
Im sure this wont cripple shields as a whole because i can think of a few things to stop these bullets already. But Seriously plz consider this at the very least.

I know this might not be the easiest thing to impliment, but it would most certainly change the face of combat as we know it, to a more fair and fun enviorment as it should be. Im also well aware that this is just for combat (but it would save many many simcrashes and ugly lagspikes to come). Appart from fairness im sure it would also make combat more attractive to people.

(dont get me wrong on this i dont mind doing it the way it is already but would rather see some fair competition where anyone could compete in. New or not. Coz a shield nowadays is beyond the reach of any newb, let alone that and a decent gun that can compete. As a weapons designer this seriously frustrates me and quiete some more people around me.)

Weapons should have their own set of functions (like vehicles) and not be piggybacking on generic ones. Then they could be unblockable and slightly more balanced.

why not form player associations? where everyone agrees to use a specific standard of weapon? wouldn't that make gun battles more fun?

course there is a certain satisfaction knowing you have the best weapon & sheild available.

IMO push shouldn't be used in a weapon at all ever, you can use the llRezObject() or llRezAtRoot() commands to give a bullet some speed when it is fired so it actually travels to the target.
It's use in weapons is just bogus and annoying. I know there are some good uses of push on trampolines and skydiving pods or such, but there must surely be a way to get rid of it for weapons, because it sucks with it in. Except maybe if there was a limit to how hard it could push without permission, so it still lets you have unsit scripts in objects, and push people back a bit with an explosion, but remove orbitting and idiocy like that.

I fully agree on push being used to excessive forces. Personally i think 20m above cloud level should be well enough for a good laugh. Orbiters that mess up your client should seriously be bannable.

As gun creator its safe to say that most people want to play god and have the best weapons and thus also best push. If a gun has a low but fun push it wouldnt nearly attract asmuch people which is more than sad.

Having an own set of code like vehicles would be VERY kewl. This could include tracers, making pvp games outside combat sims tons easier and less laggy than shooting physical bullets and causing a gazillion collisions till the point where havoc just cant handle it anymore in a decent time. This set could have a push which would be designed for guns only and be far less excessive. Tho im sure there's no stopping some people in creating insane pushes, unless you increase gravity the higher you go (which does sound somewhat undoable).

As for player associations, people tried this, tried to keep sl combat fun but it just wont work. Once one person drops in with a pushgun the fun's over. As i said, everyone wants to play god. Fair battles are only possible when forced. In my eyes this is why somany developers try to make combat systems themselves to use outside combat sims, in them they wouldn't stand a chance of having one grain of fun without someone ruining it.
As for weapons sandbox, thats a high-crash-dosage area. Not to mention nopush pad, orbiting griefer territory.

Sl combat is pretty big and a ton of people participate in it. I'd love to see it become fair again, giving anyone a chance based on their fps skills and sl experience in this area. I personally love flying around unshielded using my weapons to just pick on people, sometimes having great chases that last quiete a bit till a successfull hit. But this more often gets ruined by someone orbiting me for either no reason or them being killed and not being able to handle it in a similar fight i guess -.-

just an idea, but raising maximum DOABLE damage to 50% or 25% would make things even more fun if shields wouldnt exist. Now its just a game of who has the best technology, get passed that shield and instakill so you dont have to deal with it again.

one more thing, Sure people love to have the best gear around. But remember the time that powershield just got out? Raush was more a chatterbox being roamed by equal gods that couldnt kill eachother. That removes combat as a whole. Let alone a poor beginner storming in with exactly 0% chance of surviving longer than the 'godlike' av deems nessecairy.

Or Groundshields, people who just dig into the ground, unseeable but killing others. Fortunatly now we have firepower to counter them.

Tho if i personally find out how to kill a groundshield its going to end up as a freeb, in the hope that groundshields in general wont be used anymore. Tempairy hiding ok, but being invincible equals having fun while frustrating others in an extreme manner.
(note on groundshields -> if you sit down you can turn phantom on on the object.. if this wasnt possible we'd kill them by just hitting their groundlevel prims.)

I vote we remove all the PvP functions from LSL completely, and if you want to run a combat simulation in-game you use standard weapons that do their own damage calculations and tracking, the way the sailboat races at Hollywood use standard boats.

Isn't there only one PvP function in SL?

Standard weapons is a bit hopeless as:
* You have to have a standard. There's already several competing ones and none seems to really be preferred.
It's very hit or miss if creators actually build guns that use them.
* People have to use them instead of orbitcannon 20k.

I think that when you're online you can't hope for goodwill as most people will cheat or abuse their ass off if they can get away with it, see TSO for what SL would be like if our social rules weren't enforced.

I forgot about skydiving! That's a legitimate reason to go above the clouds although I don't think any drop pods and things go beyond 3000M, probably as it takes too long to get back down and there's nothing to see. That's only a consideration for flight ceiling though, I haven't seen any that use push to get you there.

Make your bullet 10m long.

default {
  		state_entry() {
  			    llVolumeDetect(true);
  			    llSetDamage(100.0);
  		}
  		collision_start(integer i) {
  			    if(llDetectedType(0) == AGENT)
  	    	    	   llVolumeDetect(false);
  		}
  }

That should do the trick.

I have a <0.5,0.5,0.5> plywood cube named 'Object' that can PWN everyone and anyone!

You know, there's several competing racing car standards and no-one seems to be preferred, and yet people still manage to run auto-races.
People have to race on proper tracks instead of illegally drag-racing for pink slips.
Which is why I think the official PvP support should be eliminated before going after stuff that's not really intended for or useful for PvP in the first place.
They all go to just short of the vehicle limit at 4096.
Group drops. Space exploration.
That was one of my first scripted objects, and it's been on sale in my shop about as long as I've had a shop, and before that it was always hugely popular every time I brought it out in a sandbox. The version I sell is limited to about 2500 meters because it allows angled shots and it's too easy to blast yourself into a sim wall otherwise, but I've got one that goes over two billion meters.

Sticking a bunch of transparent prims hovering around you so that you're likely to be llDetectedThingy(1) or (2) instead of (0) would defeat this, and having a loop would make it more likely the bullet would be out of range by the time you got to the AGENT...

ive got perfect trackers that kill everything shielded >.>
buttttt id rather not use those if volume detect did damage.. ikno most of the tricks that are out there to date, laggy and non laggy.

just wanna see some fair combat for everyone. people try to form aliances already but tha never turns out too well -.-

i suggested this feature coz im quiete tired outrunning lsl limitations and making uber pushes to get products to sell.. just want a cap on push. something that WORKS instead of lowering it time after time. cap it at a certain height. like who pushes above 5km anyway.
remove all push there and nulify any momentum on an av... that would clearly solve most push problems.

Add a checkbox to the client:

[x] Allow avatar to be pushed

Or if that's too inconvenient, a button. I know I'd find it handy.

I do.

What if an avatar can only have so much force exerted upon them under normal conditions? E.g - enough to push you back a bit, maybe knock you over so you know it's not just lag, but not hurl you about or orbit you? This would include objects/bullets with lots of pushing scripts in them, as additional pushes while you still have force acting upon you would be ignored. ie you are hit with a force of 100 (random number here), and hit by another force 100, the second won't have ANY effect as the first one hasn't worn off, ie you are still moving from the push.
100 is probably a bad example, the ideal number may be lower but it's just an example after all

The exception to this would be if an object has been granted special permission (which a new LSL constant could ask for), the object is owned by a land owner (e.g a trampoline), or it is an object that is being pushed (ie a skydiving pod which you can then sit-on).

Would that about cover everything? Weapons can still bop you around, but not enough to be invincible, griefer arming or client destroying, but should still allow plenty of flexibility for all legitimate uses? And any special cases would have the script permissions option to cover it? The only main argument I got against script permissions was the dialogues, but this way they'd be limited as most non-griefing cases are allowed by this (in theory, I could have missed something).

Because that would break any applications that require the ability to move an avatar about quickly.
Um, the "No Outside Push" proposal would allow the landowner to do exactly this, or to allow any push, at their option. Plus it would keep griefers from applying push against objects and orbiting people's physical and artificial-life animals.
Why provide an exception for "weapons to bop you around"?
It wouldn't allow for non-griefer gravity guns (the ones that just let you lift people and move them around), development of tools in sandboxes, and skydiving (a reason for using push there is because you CAN'T drive a pod past 4096 meters).

Not taking into account the other parts, ergo the reason for the complete suggestion. Surely your cannons or whatever are on land you own rather than other people's?

Yes, but what about sims that don't bother to set this? What about sims that have legitimate push uses and people decide to grief there?

Because this isn't a thread about removing all weapons from second life, I'm not against guns using push for effect, unless it's to the point of making all other guns useless or to grief non-combatents

The only skydiving pods I've seen are ones you sit on, tell it how high (approximately) to blast you and it's blasted upwards by a gigantic push (or series of pushes). That would be fine as pushing objects would still be unrestricted.
And for the grav gun, it won't break if you're using it on your land, or if you use it against someone who doesn't mind being thrown around by it. But the only times I've encountered these as well I abuse reported the person using it because I didn't want thrown around while minding my own business.

Yes, I was just noting that there are uses for larger push than the little ones you're suggesting for weapons, and even just allowing people to approve them would break some of those uses.
If they have legitimate uses for outside push then they have legitimate uses for outside push. How are they supposed to distinguish between them and illegitimate ones?
Weapons don't need to use push, so not having an exception for your weapon-scale push has nothing to do with removing weapons from SL.
No they're not. They're blasted up by llApplyImpulse. One reason for using push in skydiving is to get over the 4096 meter barrier, and you can't get
I don't mind being thrown around a little, but I do mind having to accept a dialog. I wish I could turn off half the "do you want to allow" dialogs I get.

And I get annoying dialogs every day. I get hit by an unwanted push once in several months.

The answer is simple. Limit SL to physics behaviour. i.e. kinetic energy, momentum, stuff like that. Push is then dependent on velocity and mass. Also, build in realistic recoil behavoiur on launch and limit the ability to launch large objects at high velocities from small objects (e.g. the agent).

Then - if you want to launch a large object at high velocity you have to build a large heavy weapons platform.

If you want to launch someone into space you have to hit them with something with sufficient energy (and you have to have a suitable launcher for it).

Shields can then be made realistic. Why should a small thin plate stop a huge high velocity missile without being irradicated? It shouldn't but in SL it does.

Finally, tougher limits on rezzing objects need to be enforced. If rezzing was painfully slow in a combat area, instant reloading would be impossible. The combattant would have to turn up with an adequate quantity of ammunition in advance, (and again you could limit how much rezzed hardware an avatar could carry). If you want to walk around with 200 10 ton missiles you should have to bring a very large vehicle to carry them.

If you take away the limits of physics any old rubbish is possible - and currently it is.
(Sitting on invisible phantom objects as a way of becoming immortal - unless you crash the sim - makes any concept of real combat in appropriate zones in SL meaningless).

Just my thoughts

Cheers
Renegade

All this is already in there.
That's why Hand of Satan is a 10 meter transparent sphere.
200 10 meter spheres take up no more space than one.
Everyone wants better and more realistic physics. They're working on it.

Not if they are physical. You can't have two intersecting physical objects.



So they say.
*Sits patiently waiting for Havok 4*

You can if they're linked, and if you're carrying them they have to be linked, and if you're moving them with a vehicle they have to be linked or the vehicle will have to be so slow and unweildy as to be unusable in combat... and would lag the sim from its internal collisions to the point that combat (or even moving around) would be impossible.

I THINK that was the idea.
If it makes the sim lag that combat is undoable, then it can't be used.
Voila.

Well, I'm all in favor of making combat impossible, but I assumed that Renegade Bligh was interested in it.
Think of the consequences of this: you would have to nerf llRezObject as well as any call that could turn a non-physical object physical or phantom objects solid (since physical phantom objects can interpenetrate) or unlink a physical object.

That means no shields at all, since they depend on rezzing or going non-phantom when they detect a bullet.

Every single bullet that you were going to fire would have to be scripted to follow you around until you were ready to fire it. You couldn't keep them inside the gun because the gun can't rez them, and since the gun's an attachment it's phantom.

Bullets fired from a vehicle could be left to bounce around in it, or scripted to follow it.

So, here you are. You have a six-gun and a box of cartridges. That means you have 25+6=31 physical scripted objects following you around. The sim's going a hell of a lot of collisions from that. And they've gotta run a superfacst detection script to keep from accidentally colliding with you and dealing you damage.

You get in your plane. Now the 200 rounds in the plane's ammo box are all bouncing around lagging the sim, AND the bullets in your gun are still trying to follow you without hitting you OR your plane. And your plane can't go faster than about 1m/s or the bullets will tunnel out of the ammo box...

This is all BEFORE considering the issues of 20 ton missiles.

meanwhile

I wander naked onto the field, carrying no weapons. I say one word, and a few seconds later everyone is hit with a Hand of Satan. See, I'd left 200 10m spheres floating around at 4000 meters. When a non-physical superteleporter delivered the locations of the avatars to them 180 of them ganged together to llPushObject the last 20 to ground level where they each fired their one perfectly targeted shot and llDie()d.

I win.