Better lag management tools: Show Object Update

Now we've all been plagued by it, its unavoidable. Lag. We also have very few tools available to us to delag our homes/sims. Sure sensors can detect Active scripts, but just because its active doesn't mean its the cause of your sim's lagginess.

New scripters are poping up every day. Very few of them know how to script efficiently and even fewer make it to the level of a well renowned scripter who knows what causes lag. Actually, we're not even sure how much lag a script will cause because there's nothing to guage it with other then is it Active or Passive. Many scripters claim their scripts are low lag or even no lag, but without the tools to prove otherwise we're stuck taking their word for it and probly get stuck with a product thats subject of false advertising.

How many of us rent, own, or run a sim? How many of us own a good chunk of land? Wouldn't you like to know what the cause of those lag spikes or horrible constant lag is coming from instead of having to just relocate to a more vacent sim? I know I would.

We have the ability to see Active Agent Updates giving us the ability to see how much resources our avitars are using. It would make sense to see an option for Object activity updates or even an LSL function on sensors to tell us how often an object updates using color, percent, miliseconds, or whatever can be done to show us how laggy an object is.

The big answer from LL is that its our content. Well if its our content we should have the tools to find out exactly what in our content is doing it. Please put as many votes into Proposal 1137 if you want to finally rid your land of server sided lag.

Proposal 1137

EDIT: Yes I know the Estate Tools have some stuff that can help identify laggy scripts/objects, but how many of us OWN a sim to have access to those tools? We need public domain tools that can been accessed by all.

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For scipts a "integer llQueryPerformanceTimer()" function would be usefull.

The function would take the 64 bit CPU cylce counter and shift it in to a range where the integer roll over rate is in the 10? second range.

I could then do
integer Start = llQueryPerformanceTimer();
//do stuff...
integer Elapsed = llQueryPerformanceTimer() - Start;
And then see exactly how long it took to do that task. Not counting interupts, ect...

This would also allow people to deturmine the time the functions take and place that info in the wiki.

Honestly ANYTHING is better then the nothing we have now. If we get enough votes on the proposal we should grab the attention of the laisons.

Aren't such tools included in the new "Estate Management" thing thats recently been unveiled?

I can think of many uses for finding lag on your own - and others - parcels. Recently, in Hector there was a spate of the sim going down to 1fps in regular cycles, indicating it was a script problem. It turned out to be a dancefloor that someone was working on, and was having trouble with it - but instead of putting it away when they logged out, just left it there. Now, this thing was creating 140+ prims simultanously as an effect, and causing lag spikes. It took several hours of time, several Lindens, and several sim restarts before we finally found the problem, tucked away in his house where you wouldn't have expected it. Now, a simple fly around the sim checking each parcel for the amount of scripts running might have taken me 10 minutes, and would have identified the problem immediately.

I don't see why only sim owners should have access to tools that the majority of us would find helpful.

Lewis

Working in the same region as Ron, i have been just as worried about the problem. But I'm also worried about security. I've had many posts regarding sim security, but lag is another issue. The sim we manage has constant drops in time dilation. it used to be on a hourly schedule but in the last month its just been chaotic. I have scanned the entire sim top to bottom every prim. only thing can assume is its a vendor in the store causing it or something in some ones house. I have scanned the houses and all i see active is pose balls.

Its easy to write a pose ball script that don't use a listener (instead a touch button) but not many do it... A friend of mine Frost White has written a perfect touch toggle pose ball. Now as for the vendors we use a lot of network vendors like J-E-V-N. I am a customer of this service myself. I chose not to set mine up in this sim cuz i would just be adding to the lag. Instead i use my homade vendor that i set up open source. You might know it as the Hibrid vendor. I miss spelled it on purpose. It's just a basic turnkey thing that runs off of note cards. Only active when clicked on. No network abilities.

I cant be positive that J-E-V-N is responsible since there has been past debate that turned up false. But i am told that something is networking and downloading a large amount of textures into the sim. We also have this problem where we find prims at coordinates <0,0,0> and if we delete them then a bunch of other things in the sim go with them. We have had lindens investigate but they told us nothing. If you ever find something down there in your sim, parcel that piece off and check how many objects are in that 16m parcel using the land tools. if it turns up 0, DO NOT DELETE. It's actually mirroring objects from other places in the sim. They don't count towards your prim count. If a different number turns up, its probably ok to return them using the land tools.

Yes and if you look at the end you'll see this:



As you see I agree with you 100% and thats what I'm trying to get.

I have a nice little sign that only activates when clicked on that hands out a notecard and the URL to the proposal. If anyone wants a copy to put on their land at their club, mall, sandbox (in the sim you own), whatever feel free to IM me in game or visit The Forest for a copy. All signs are copiable and transferable.

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Ya need to stop bumping the thread, it will either gain support or it won't; you cannot force it. Either way, a Linden has to decide it should be a feature, which usualy has little to do with public support (Havok 2 has incredible public backing, and after 3 years of promises from LL, we still don't have it).

A visual indicator on objects causing updates i would love to have, i'm very interested to see what really causes updates (and how to write scripts that cause fewer updates).

Please don't bump the thread more then twice a week (and preferably less).

I consider my-self as the 'few who know what causes lag in scripts'. I am an avid scripter, and I own a shit load of land

Tools right now are sufficient to detect 'lagging' objects. 99% of lag is client side and has nothing to do with the server youa re in. Usually the best way to deal with it, is to turn down your settings when you enter busy sims. Also 99% of the time I can tell what's causing lag by just looking around. It's not hard to find. I say it's not hard to find, well that probably because i've been here for so long and i've had time to train my eye for such things.

I'm not gonna get into specifics in this thread on 'what causes scripts to lag'. Most of the time it's simply people trying stuff out, or they don't know a better way to do script it. It's mostly because they don't know and they take the easiest road.

Last but not least, debugging tools for the masses is a BAD idea. Again most people in SL have no clue how to read 'said tools' that are provided to them. This often leads to harrassment and witch hunts. Maybe you should turn your prop into something more along the lines of... how to script efficiently and how to read statistics.

Last I checked we don't have MONO yet. Scripts are run server side and after watching my home sim's script time running 19 - 21ms under the SIM STATS I'm pretty sure scripted objects have NOTHING to do with how your client runs unless said script produces a visual effect. Also lag spikes that send sim fps & time dialation to 0.01 aren't client sided lag. Also, what tools are you refering to exactly? llSensor? That only tells you whether its active or passive. Not much of a lag indicator if you ask me. Or is it the ESTATE TOOLS wich are only accessable if you OWN the sim? Sorry tools like these shouldn't be limited only to Land Barons and the few private sim owners.


Yes, it is a bad idea because ignorant masses are easier to sell to.

Some argue we don't need the Debug menu yet the option to have it is still there and there a MANY that use the Debug menu. I myself use the debug on a regular basis watching debug output, fast timers, turning surface patch on & off checking for objects underground in the sim I maintain, etc etc.

Also tools such as these can be excellent learning tools because new and advanced scripters can have a visual representation of their work when they're striving for something effecient.

So no Nexus, I will NOT change my proposal to fit the needs of those affraid of change, angry customers, and/or better competition.

Interestingly my most CPU intensive script does not even indicate it is active when you hold the ALT key. This is because the database script only has a listen on a high channel and a timer.

While simple "Touch for notecard" scripts show up as active.

Another good reason why Active/Passive scanners are useless.

Wait, I'm confused. When I go to debug and turn on "show updates", it shows updates for ALL objects, not just attachments like the proposal says.

Only times I've ever witnessed that is when an object first rezzes or comes into view for the first time. It is currently not a good indicator of resource use for non-attachments. Example, recently someone gave me estate tool access and I've noticed a vehicle was at the top of the list, Show Updates didn't react at all to said vehicle.

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a nice little bump. When the podcast comes out download it and take a listen to my convo with Phillip himself on the subject.

Has this issue been rendered obsolete by events? If so please post the solution you have found.