Increase the max particle count...

My suggestion is to increase the max particle count if the user wishes. It would make many things look nicer, such as fireworks displays.
It shouldn't be too hard to change it from the 8000ish limit currently in place to 32000 or so, and it would really benefit me and others who want to use more particles in their objects.

http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=1069

Why do you need so many particles? I often see scripts using way, way more particles than they need to to achieve the effect they're going for. For people without 3ghz cpus and brand new 512mb graphics cards, having even 1000 or 2000 particles on the screen at once can cause serious framerate problems. I personally have to even disable the clouds most days, because my computer can't handle all the transparent texture blending.

Say LL did increase the maximum number of particles allowed (and I'm assuming you're saying there's a maximum value allowed in the "maximum particles" setting...?). I, personally, wouldn't make use of it, and I'm sure a majority of people's computers can't handle 32000 particles on the screen. Most people aren't going to have that setting that high, and you're the only one who's going to see your particle-hungry particle system the way you intended it.

Anyway, I'm curious... can you give me an example of why you need that many particles?

That's not true, my Athlon XP 2500+ with an fx 5200(128mb) is capable of doing more than 2000 particles. I get 30-60 fps with a 6800gs and that isn't a top of the range graphics card.


Many wouldn't. This suggestion was made under the idea that LL could implement this easily. The average user probably won't use it- but some people will. If it would take a long time then don't bother.




But I don't think i'd be the only one either. Especially judging by the fact that the proposal has a few votes. In world I know a few people who would be interested.


At the moment, in a simulator, you may have a waterfall that produces particles, a particle 'poofer' and a smoke generating machine.
If you wanted to run say, 30 fireworks under these conditions, you'd start needing more than 8000 particles. Perhaps 32000 is way too much and unnecessary, but double would be nice.


Does that answer your questions?

Yes! I want more particles too!

The actual upper limit for particles seems to be 4096, not 8192 - even though it's in the preferences. I have an average almost 2 years old puter and it can handle 4000 particles fine. I wouldn't mind to have even 32K particles - damn people with their fountains and waterfalls eating away my particles. It would be also nice if LL fixed the interest list w.r.t. particle emitters.

People who don't have fast enough computers for particles can just turn it off.

The end of the argument is, SL handles particles badly. Games which could have 10000 particles on the screen have the same impact where SL may have 2500. So at the moment, raising the limti is pointless and is just silly, most people won't have it up that high, so scripters and builders should take this into account.

Even though most people won't have it on a massively high status, it will improve things for those that do at little extra cost(if you use a fairly high end pc)

At the moment, there is only one reason why not to increase the absolute max-time.
And I have already said that if this is a feature that would take ages to do, then LL should focus on mono.
If it won't take long though.. then I would really like this alot.

Ah, yeah, I see the problem. What I'd actually like to see would be having particle systems that are way outside of the draw distance not still rendering. From what I can tell, particle systems can stick around in your client for a long, long time, and they add up to make the problems you mention.

Yes, this is the problem with particles, at least from what I've found. The greater your draw distance, the more particles that need to be drawn... even though you don't see those particles that are 200m away. 4096 particles with a 128m draw distance may still offer good particle effects. But, at 288m draw distance, those 4096 particles are spread amongst a wider range of particle effects... therefore, particles look like crap. Plus, it's unneccessary and taxing to draw particles at the max draw distance.

So, instead of allowing more particles to be drawn, maybe LL could implement a particle draw distance in addition to the regular 3D draw distance. Then, we could set a distant 320m range for 3D draw, but only a 64m range for particle draws. That would allow the available particles to come from only emitters within the shorter range.

Keep in mind that this wouldn't be a "particle draw distance", it would be a "particle emitter draw distance". When a particle is emitted, the sim doesn't know where it's going to go, and neither does the client know until it's actually traced the particle... and by that time it's already done the work.

So a 64m particle draw distance would mean you wouldn't see that landing beacon for your parachute drop until you were already on the ground.

I like the idea, but perhaps it could be "drop particle draw distance if FPS < xx" or "drop particle draw distance if more than xxxx particles are shown"? This could be done when they add "show nearest N lights" or "reduce lights shown when FPS < xx".

I would personally like to see llParticleSystem actually release the particles you tell it to, when you tell it to. Doing that would mean I could use far fewer particles than I do at the moment, where I have to tell it to release five instead of one just because one won't appear at all (and then sometimes it releases all five).

More complex particles would reduce the need for more particles. What I mean by more complex particles is adding things like rotation, randomization of values, texture anim capabilities, larger max particle size, better orientation options (lock x z, lock yz, lock xy etc), vibration/wiggle, curve/keyframe support etc. You can make an incredibly cool looking effect with only 50-200 particles if the particle system has enough additional features that allow you to control behavior of the particle. Right now our particles are relatively simple, very few variables controlling them so we should be able to have a large number of them, but from what I understand they were added somewhat hastily so it may not be the case. The general rule with particle systems is the more complex the particle the less you can have, the simpler the particle the more you can have.

Million particle systems work in this manner, tons and tons of incredibly simple particles (usually only a few values such as color, velocity vector etc) because these are so simple you can have gazillions of them all moving in very complex patterns determined by expressions. For examples of this take a look at the following links.

Most particle systems found in games today range widely in capabilities but the most comon per particle parameters are....

Static Values
Initial Velocity

Dynamic/Animatable (generally through a a linear or bezier spline curve system with multiple knots/keys)
Spin Rate (positive moves clockwise (when billboarded))
Weight/Mass
Age/Lifetime
Texture UV Scale
Texture UV Offset
Vertex color value

These are just the more common values, most systems are considerably more complex than this, and sadly a few that are simpler.

At any rate, our particle system is very much under featured so far as particle systems go, and its only interface being a script is sadly very limiting to the community as a whole. But its a damn sight better than nothing.

Increasing max particle age could be very useful .. make it long enough and we could draw pictures with particles.

you dont see 32000 particles uness it riht in you face AND your viewig on a 100" plasma screen with quad-SLI running. Its like buying a hummer H1, you think your cool, but your never gonna use the power and you pay $70 worth of gas every two days.

Im almost sure that SL doesn't max the particle count up with visible particles, its more particles that are in range.
Hence why 32000 particles isn't total overkill.

I've never had my particles higher than 1000. I've never seen my FPS break 40. Changing to an avatar that has 380 prims drops my FPS by 5 (and everyone else within rendering range of me sees the drop too). I have a 1 year old laptop that isn't bad (except for the mobility version of my graphics card I could run Doom 3). I am HAPPY with an FPS of about 15 (15! If that was in any other game but SL I would scream my head off about the shitty FPS).
Be happy with your MASSIVE frame rate, I don't think there are many people who see that kind of thing running 8000 particles.