Who is the Government?

Suppose, for a moment, that many adventurous, thrill-seeking "griefers" would actually prefer and enjoy the hard work of becoming sanctioned law enforcement officers in a resident-based society... and that many existing "mentors" and other newbie-greeters would themselves enjoy the hard work of becoming the elected representatives and statesmen of that same society.. wouldn't That be nice!

(Edit) sorry, I have no website for this idea. Wrong place, for maybe wrong idea...

Yeah.....problem with sanctioned griefers acting as police is that they don't like taking orders from ANYBODY, so there would not be any way to control them properly. Some military groups, such as the AN and Sparta, have a rigid structure of control, and they don't allow griefing within their ranks. Many/most griefers are just kids who are out to annoy other people. That's why if you WOULD have "police" that are not Lindens, they would have to follow strict rules, such as the Linden ToS.

I'm not really interested in giving people who find it fun to do things like crash the grid or harrass other residents any kind of official power. I would be happier seeing them go away with some kind of hardware id ban and not return.

Griefers are to be looked on with contempt. Putting them in a position of any level of authority is just a bad idea

The system you propose would actually reward greifers for their bad behavior. No way. Ban em, don't give them ammo to mess with more people.

I already rule the world anyways... What's the point

Seconded!
People who cannot be trusted to respect the rights of others should not be allowed authority, or weapons.

Yeah then you put in charge those griefing mentors etc, who'd go on a total power trip griefing random people in SL (as if we haven't seen this already?).

Mentors etc were not elected. They volunteer for stuff they do. And are residents just like you and me.

The whole milita thing is just stupid, when that happens you have a bunch of residents who think they can bend the CS cause they have been empowered by some random idiot to do so in the name of upholding the peace. Thus they go around violating the CS as well.

What I want to know is: "Does the government have an SL related resident run website?"

Yeah.... lets model this whole thing on RL..... opps.. that SL policeman didnt just ban that avatar just because of the colour of his skin, or creed, did he?

Greifers are a part of life Unfortunately, however, giving them the ability of being annonomous by allowing 'No Info On File' status is as bad as enrolling them into the ranks of the SL police force anyway.

I excerise my Mute button and just dissapear into the vastness of SL space and get on with why I am in SL anways. I can always come back later, after the novelty has worn off the local clowns, to find some fun. I don't actually believe in most cases it's personal with them.

If you really really want an official police force (other than the Lindens, part of their job description), be prepared to pay SL taxes.

When I hear sirens at night, I don't automaticaly think "Oh God! Some Nightmare is Happening for Real!"... No, instead, I think... "Thank God I live where there Are such things as police, and ambulances, and terrorist response teams, and the USA government which I am really glad to be a citizen of." And surely the police of the USA are under rules even stricter than the Linden TOS.

Police officers are a special breed of people. I know I could never be a policeman; I could never enjoy the idea of having to personally deal with a lawbreaker or "griefer" or crook by any other name.... maybe I'm just carried away with the idea of "set a thief to catch a thief"...

Griefers have a "grievance"... with the society which rejects them so totally. Maybe some of the less evil ones can be reconciled to society by being given a place in it to protect that same society...

I ain't interested in rewarding griefers. I'm interested in re-directing their attention and energies to that which both they and I would find mutually acceptable

Ruling the world is easy... ruling yourself is much harder, and vastly more rewarding...

Respect is a mutual event; it cannot happen by itself. I do respect a policeman, and I do trust a policeman to respect the law. That same respect, and that trust, so very valuable to a policeman, can be withdrawn... by the society which grants it. This is a power for a society to have... First, there must be a society. Are we a society?

I don't know what a CS is. But I know mentors decided to become mentors without pressure from society. They like themselves, and they like all of us too... they like Second Life... they want it to keep on keeping on.. I don't know any mentors myself. But I would vote for a mentor long before I would vote for an Anshe Chung, a griefor, or any just plain vanilla Resident with a good press agent.. Mentors are are the ony ones I've seen actually doing any good for residents...

Who Is The Government?

Notice I didn't put that title in the future tense, but in the present tense. Who, Right Now, is the effective government of Second Life? Am I not right now scared to leave my privately owned parcel of land with all it's inherent protections, for fear I will meet up with a damned griefer somewhere? Do I not hurriedly conduct whatever business I might think I have with a vendor elsewhere, and then quickly retreat to my own land? Would I not, if I were an island owner, despise any contact at all with the mainland?... Tell me, please...

Who Is The Government of Second Life! Griefers, or my Own Self, along with You, my fellow residents?

I do agree, it ain't a personal issue with griefers... they have merely found a Voice here they don't have anywhere else. And as far as Taxes are concerned... heh. You'll have to take that issue up with all the statesmen, Solons, legislators, congressmen, senators, presidents, representatives, governors, aides, gofurs, and whatever... that we as SL'rs do not have.

(PS) if someone will tell me how, I'll set up a website for this thread. Thanks.

For chronic griefers, I recommend Lineage II or Eve Online.

Over in those, you are *supposed* to get by on whatever means possible!


(Oddly enough, in Lineage II I think the average griefer gets *less* far, but that's another story entirely).

Long before I found SL, I had found (on the internet) a computer game that used the old text-adventure method. It was about slavery in the USA south, pre-civilwar or something. What happened in it was, if, in a certain situation, you "plundered a dead body" you immediately paid for it by becoming a black female slave on an old south plantation, totally under the power of a horrible male white slave owner.

It was degrading and humiliating. You became a black female slave; you were tortured and worse... I quit the game about then, but was forced to realize, yes, I had indeed callously looted the dead body the game had provided... Maybe my description allows the game to be recognized... It did change my attitude toward so-called "games"...

The premise here (by "Supposed to get by" is the same, and I deny it. SL griefers are not all callous gamers like that. Most of them, like all the rest of us, recognize the incredible (yet still only potential) power of SL.

If Linden Labs is not to be the maintainer of the all-impotant computer servers, which let us play Second Life at all, who is? Who will I be better off paying money to than Linden Labs, to "play" this game? Whoever maintains the servers must be paid to do it, because it ain't free.

So far, I haven't come across anybody better than the Lindens to establish standards of behavior in here. I like the basic message they have stated about their goals for this "game".

They have also said, they don't want to be the police in SL... ok. (I don't blame them!) But that statement all by itself shows that they do think "police" of some kind is needed in here. Based on my own personal experience in SL, I tend to agree. Ok.

Any resident-based and sanctioned "police" will have to meet the standards of whoever is maintaining the server computers which keep this "game" possible, because the servers will control the cops as well as the crooks.

So. We, as residents, must come up with a consensus of desire for police; we must then elect policemen, or somehow get a "police academy" going which results in "resident-accredited" police people... but these "resident-accredited-cops" must then meet whatever standards Linden Labs agrees to... or whoever is working the server computers...

Where is the power here? Where is the power of the people, who give up their natural social rights of government to various "elected" government officials? Linden Labs, or whoever is doing the servers, get to have their cake and eat it, too. Phooeey.

Who is the government? How can this work?

I suggest getting your own patch of land, and banning or ejecting anyone that gives you trouble. Just the fact that you could will deter a lot of nonsense.

Now, if you really hate living in an icky area, where there are really goofy bothersome things, seek out a private sim.

Usually there is a person who owns it and sets the rules, plus some estate manager friends that keep an eye on things.

If you are decent, and the private sim owner can balance a checkbook and has sense enough to treat you like a valued customer, you'll probably have a great arrangement.

As for 'residents with power over others' wherever... personally I think this is not a good idea, especially if they were griefers to begin with. I'll leave it to you, to consider what might go wrong under such a scenario.

That is a description of an island owner... I'll take the Lindens, thank you.

One has to look at who currently has the power to police the game.. who created the framework and style of the game... who has set the rules to obtain an account.. who has allowed the 'residents' of the game to actually cause grief by default... Only answer I can come up with is Linden Labs.

If they expected a peaceful utopia style game, then why guns, explosives, sheilds, no-push functions built into the core. One programme I used that was based around killing and violence, actually had the facility to prevent 'foul language' being used , the makers said it was to prevent 'over excited violence' from esculating .

Linden Labs have created the rules of TOS yet say 'Not our problem' in disputes. Any company who benefits from users enrolling, would be reluctant to turn away paying customers, in all but the worst possible circumstances. However...... when all is said and done, the 'nature' of this programme is about society, the creation of a Second Life. Apart from a few variances (like Teleporting etc) we can do much the same as our own First Life. Do we all live in Utopia? Perhaps the main difference is the 'restrictions' that many see and some revere, is the existence of Goverments, Police, Taxation, regulations etc that we like to escape to when clicking the 'connect' button into Second Life.

The one single element of Second Life I would like to see changed, is the removal of the 'features' that can lead to violence and the tools that are used to subject the will over another by force, to a 'combat' area/sim. If we choose then to partake, we can teleport. For the most part, we would not then need any Government/Police etc.. Utopia for all?

Today in SL I saw the sun rise, with an image of Martin Luther King in it... It helped me remember some old dreams, along with your comments. Maybe in SL there is never a need for violence, OR police. If it can work like that, that's what I want to be part of.

Also I remember some things I read in Emerson's works, about character. Maybe I just need to work on losing some of my old fears. Here in SL, I have a great chance to do just that.

i appreciate this thread for it's civility and thoughtfulness on the subject matter; however, it is not about a website (which is what this forum is for), nor is it fitting for Resident Answers as it's more of a general discussion.. and we don't have a General forum (anymore).

in light of all this, i have had to close the thread and have submitted to Linden Review.

if you wish to continue to talk about this tiopic, may i suggest using any of the many 3rd party sites (about SL) that are available? (click here for a list of some of the sites)


Torley Linden:
For the reasons mentioned, this thread remains closed. Might also be a good idea for an inworld discussion event.