FAQ: Questions about the Second Life Search Engine

I created a FAQ to answer some of the questions I've been getting about Second411.

Second411 is a web and in world Search Engine to find items.

I'd really appreciate if people could take a look at it and see if there was anything else I should add to the list.

The FAQ Page is at http://www.second411.com/blog/?page_id=7

If you want a SearchHUD or ItemBox, you can visit the shop in Takalo.

secondlife://Takalo/137.29903/57.54454/251.22952/

Please feel free to IM me (Hal9k Andalso) with any questions.

Thanks.

In your item box, I notice that your script isn't open source.
I have a problem with having to put my items in your box and leaving them there.

How do I know that you don't have a llGiveInventory() command in there, to give copies of all the items to yourself, giving you quite possibly a massive amount of stuff for free from everyone using your system?

Since there is no way to search someone's inventory, there's no way for us to know if you do or don't. Howabout opening your code up and making it open source so we can see for ourselves? (and I mean in the box so we can see it live, not here).

I'm a big supporter of Open Source software (Ubuntu user, PHP, MySQL, etc) and it's intriguing to me to open up my scripts. From the feedback I've been receiving it's quite likely that I'll do this for the next version. Is this typical though? Are Slex, SLBoutique and every vendor and script that interacts with inventory open?

Using some form of registration system yourself within your objects is the best way to prevent illegal copies, or at least get notification of them, for objects that can be scripted anyway.

As for releasing the code, unless every scripter in SL is going open source, this is a moot point, as every scripted object is suspect until proven otherwise, and there's no reason to single out this application. It needs to be "Buyer Beware" for any purchase, but being overly suspicious of every product will ruin your enjoyment of the game. A little research into the creators background and some simple questions can usually alleviate most concerns.

I think it's unreasonable to expect people who have put a lot of time and effort into creating something unique, to then give that away to every man and his dog, who in all probability will copy it and try to resell as their own somewhere along the track anyway.

well, no, not every vendor out there does release their code open source, but think about the motives. Vendors who SELL their inventory delivery systems are making a profit from selling their devices, so there's no percieved motive for their vendors to deliver contents to their creator. As for SLB and SLX, they make a percentage of every sale, so they're already gaining from their system.

What I'm leary of is any device that is given out for free, that makes you keep a copy in inventory, when there's no other means of compensation for the author. As someone who's gotten burned in RL trusting others too much when something was "free" , I'm overly cautious you might say.

Spitfire,

If I can paraphrase your question, you're essentially asking: "What's my business plan?", and I have an easy answer: advertising.

Google makes money by placing relevant, unobtrusive, clearly marked ads next to search results.

Second411 plans to make money by placing relevant, unobtrusive, clearly marked ads next to search results.

Right now in the Search HUD, the bottom pane is something I can dynamically swap out on each query and it would be straightforward enough to put some Adsense style ads next to the search results on the website.

I haven't done so yet as it made more sense for me to just get the software out, make sure it worked, make sure it scaled, make sure this was something valuable that worked for people before trying to drop advertising and everything that goes along with that into the picture.

Thanks, Hal9k

The main reason that people want to see the source code is because established sites, like SLX and SLB, are trusted, because they have thousands of vendors. You're a relatively new setup, so people can't be sure that it's not a scam.

I think the easiest way to allay these fears is to have two prims in your box-- the first one is what users put their objects into, and the second one relays the information to the central server. Have the first box's script simply collect the names of the items in the box and send a linkmessage to the second prim, and have modify permissions set. In this way, you can keep your protocol secure and prevent massive DB spamming, but also remove any concerns.

The whole "I don't know what your code does" thing is a long time coming. I've been predicting for a while its arrival - and people should definitely be wary of the code they use.

I can vouch for Hal. He's an upstanding member of the Pi island community, and I will be including plugin software for second411 in my next vendor kit release.

Hiro: thanks for the vote of confidence!

Keknehv, that's an interesting proposal. The itembox is actually 2 prims already (there is the box itself, then an invisible "handle" so that you can bury it where you like), though I think people would still distrust that I might somehow, someway be doing something to rip them off.

In trying to figure out what to do, I've been looking for analogies on the greater web/tech fronts. Is this more like Flickr opening up their API or more like a company with proprietary software?

Given how stupid (relatively speaking) I ended up making the boxes, it's not that big a deal to me that the source for them is out there. While there is some definite concern on my part about potentially opening it up for people to spam the service, I think it will be manageable (though I'll need some time to put some more safeguards in place).

So, my thinking right now is that for the next major version of the ItemBoxes, I'm going to make the scripts modify and simultaneously publish an API reference for anyone who wants to make vendors, event notifiers or whatever cool thing they cook up that I haven't even thought of that interacts with the service.

Two more thoughts:

1. I think there is probably a greater danger from obscurity than in competition. This service has to be something that shop owners and creators find useful and I really want to bend over backwards to make people feel comfortable with the system and listing their items.

2. This seems like it will work out fine for me, but what should other people getting started in SecondLife do to build trust? I'd like to think that I'm an asset to the SecondLife community and that I'm building something that makes life easier for SL residents.


Thanks to all for their input on this issue.

i was also wary of putting items in a box when i have no clue what the script might do. i don't doubt you have good intentions and forgive me if this question is stupid, but i'm not following why we have to put items in the box to facilitate accurate item searches.

For example, i sell clothing, most often in sets containing 4 to 7 pieces. So let's say i box up a set called In My Tribe and put it in your 411 box...how does that help someone find it unless they are specifically looking for the item by name which is unlikely? Most of my items have unusual names so as not to be the same name as another designers. I try to come up with wacky ones, spell things squirelly etc. For example demiMOD includes several looks designed with Mod era fabrics and includes chunky bangles and crazy sunglasses. If i box up DemiMOD and put it in 411 box how will someone searching for Retro Outfits, Mod, Vintage, Sunglasses, Bangles, 1960's, mini skirt or a number of other search terms i can think of find it? According to the site the idea is that the purpose is for people searching for items which the find doesn't address. I agree, that's why i do verbose classifieds.

Am i making sense? I hardly slept last night and am punchy. :/ My point is if it is going to TP people looking for particular items or keywords, why can't we just program in keywords or item names into a notecard that goes into the 411box? If your product isn't delivering the item to a shopper like SLex or Slboutique...why do you need it in your box?

Hey Kaia,

Thanks for looking at the service. Just as a general point, if you read through my other responses in this thread, you'll find that I came to the decision to just open the scripts in the next version so people could check them out themselves (which will hopefully ease everybody's concerns).

That being said, it's absolutely NOT necessary to put your actual items in the box if you don't want to.

However, I am pulling all of the metadata from the items (permissions, object type, etc.). So, if you are concerned I might be ripping you off, but you would still like to use the system:

1. Create some plywood cubes

2. Name them descriptively

3. Set the permissions to what your actual items are

4. Put the plywood cubes in the ItemBox

Putting your own items in the box is purely a time saving mechanism for people.

In your particular case Kaia, I'd definitely not recommend boxing up all of your items into a giftbox and putting the giftbox in the Second411 Itembox.

Put your individual items in the box and let someone who is searching for "sunglasses" find your cool sunglasses and then maybe the entire outfit.

it wasn't really a concern with being ripped off. it was the searchability aspect. i think i understand you are saying to break up say an outfit set than includes 7 pieces by not placing the entire set in one box and placing in your 411, but rather each piece of each set individually is dropped in there. either way, a big job for me that i would have to set some serious time aside to accomplish. it may very well be worth the effort, i'll keep it in mind.

thanks for your response i wish you the best of luck.

Kaia, thanks again for taking the time to reply. With SL being down today I got some time to finish up something I mentioned earlier: a means to search via item attributes.

Second411 Advanced Search

This functionality will make it into the HUD as well. Something else to consider, while breaking your items out of their giftboxes and dropping them in as individual items is definitely the optimal way to go, there's no downside to just putting them in an ItemBox now. While they won't be indexed as thoroughly as they might be, it's sort of the difference between being in Google optimally vs being in Google at all.

Thanks again.