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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
09-01-2005 02:01
Here are some excerpts from the "Metaverse Justice Watch" meeting, that I find particularly insightful:
From: someone

Anshe Chung: This is what we feel makes us stakeholders. More like you [Lindens] and in contrast to e.g. merely tourists, users, consumers, players etc
Prokofy Neva: But we do need to make sure that money and land still count *as much* as content that is put in inventory.

finn Jensen: I do not see we ask for favouritism, but clear guidlines and fairness; that is something that nobody should have anything against

Philip Linden: We could then use these meetings as a place to debate whether to adopt the presented topic or feature or policy. What can help us, is the methodical examination of a topic, a complete design for policy or functionality, and a first pass at gathering community support, which culminates in this sort of meeting. I suppose this would be like the process of adopting law in most governments... a process of preparation and debate followed by an open decision.

Philip Linden: I think that things this group may do should be uniformly public. Therefore we will look at what is OK for all of SL to read. Plus, that would put this group at an unfair advantage relative to the rest of the community, which it sounds like we're trying to avoid.
Prokofy Neva: Yes the point is to get it public for all not just a select few, that's how it will have relevance.

My opinion: such a group has no reason at all to exist. We are either concerned about what it is trying to achieve in one way or another, or banned from SL already. The Linden guidelines for employees should be made public, not sent to a group member to decide who gets to read it.


Soooooooo finally Democracy is coming to SL. Well frankly, I was very happy with our current anarcho-libertarian capitalist society :( We're about to get our very own political class, and invitations are required.


The point of the group's creation, and its intented goals, are not all crud, of course. Hhere are a number of excellent proposed Linden policies regarding SL:
From: someone
o Management of land as non-consumable investment in Second Life. This means that old regions receive regular upgrades and that land is not subject to technical aging. Land should have somewhat stable value not just in short term but in terms of 5 years or 10 years. The considerable monthly maintenance fees should make that possible.
o No financial, technical or marketing support from Linden Lab for any resident media or political group that is not made available on equal basis to other media or political groups
o Linden Lab is of course allowed to run their own media when it is easily recognizable as non-resident media
o No using of Linden accounts to help businesses in ways not available to their competitors


Now things I feel are ugly:
From: someone
BE AFRAID:
o No Linden alts in groups related to resident business, media or political organizations
o No involvement of relatives or close friends of Linden Lab employees either
o Right to a jury of one's peers, notification of the charges against one, and who has brought suit, right to counsel, right to find facts and present one's defense, public notification of punishments in a long-term archive for precedent-setting value
BE VERY VERY AFRAID:
o Process for fair compensation of residents damaged by actions/changes originating from Linden Lab. Adjudication process for claims.

That last point, I see as suing the Goddess for being born sick.


Then there is the whole discussion about who gets to be a representative or member of the group. I think Kris beats me to the punch here:
From: Kris Ritter
Yeah. Except I wouldnt want a single one of the residents involved in that conversation speaking on my behalf. It must be my blind jealousy, of course, but there are at least three people in that conversation that I find to be beyond contempt. The words I'd like to use to describe them would get me permanently banned.


Oh and, yeah, the new jews are "the tourists, users, consumers and players" of SL.

So I invite all the "second class citizens" to form groups representing their own interests, since this seems to be the only way they can hope to, one day, get Lindens to discuss with them what Linden policies are to be passed in their favour.
_____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-01-2005 02:06
You left out the best part: Anshe wanted the participants of that group's discussions enjoined from relating information shared in those meetings via an NDA. Delicious!
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
09-01-2005 02:07
I can start writing a theme song if you like...


We are the world... we are the peons...
We are the ones who spend the f*cking cash
So you best listen....


and yah I thought forming a group to look out for "our best interests" then having a NDA pretty f*cking hysterical too :)

Siggy.
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.

From: Jesse Linden
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
09-01-2005 02:19
You write your anthem, I'll write mine ;) And here's my flag, it might remind some nebulous philosophical concepts and some weird acts long forgotten to some educated persons here:
_____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
Dizzy Mandala
Spin Spin Sugar
Join date: 8 Feb 2004
Posts: 82
09-01-2005 02:25
Is this the new thing we need to be outraged about that will be completely forgotten in two weeks? Just checking.
Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
09-01-2005 02:27
From: Dizzy Mandala
Is this the new thing we need to be outraged about that will be completely forgotten in two weeks? Just checking.


Yes.

Assuming that nothing actually comes of it, of course. Hopefully it was just Philip sitting down for half hour to appease some of the big mouths in the hope they'd fuck off, as opposed to having any intention of fulfilling any part of their agenda.
Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
09-01-2005 02:32
Yeah, pretty much. But the hassle is that we each have to voice our discontent about some chosen few calling themselves representatives of other SL residents, or else they might start thinking it a good idea.
_____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
Issarlk Chatnoir
Cross L. apologist.
Join date: 3 Oct 2004
Posts: 424
09-01-2005 02:39
From: someone

BE AFRAID:
o No Linden alts in groups related to resident business, media or political organizations
o No involvement of relatives or close friends of Linden Lab employees either

How is this bad?

From: someone

o Right to a jury of one's peers, notification of the charges against one, and who has brought suit, right to counsel, right to find facts and present one's defense, public notification of punishments in a long-term archive for precedent-setting value

So any grieffer can stall his banishment by first going to court?
Silly thing. ATTN: moneyless newbies ; if you are looking for a job in SL, become lawyer fast!

From: someone

BE VERY VERY AFRAID:
o Process for fair compensation of residents damaged by actions/changes originating from Linden Lab. Adjudication process for claims.

We have that in my country, we pay people who no longer have a valid business model to continue their flawed business anyway.
_____________________
Vincit omnia Chaos
From: Flugelhorn McHenry
Anyway, ignore me, just listen to the cow
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
09-01-2005 02:41
From: Dizzy Mandala
Is this the new thing we need to be outraged about that will be completely forgotten in two weeks? Just checking.


yup. but till next week it is great fodder for comedy.

*singing*

Something thats sordid, favors awarded, something for everyone
A COMEDY TONIGHT!
Secretive meetings, select Linden seating, something for everyone
A COMEDY TONIGHT!
Something of cash, values at stake!
Important affairs, will just have to wait...

A who's who house party, NO SCRIPTERATI!
Something for posters to incite.....

TRAGEDY TOMORROW, COMEDY TONIGHT!
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.

From: Jesse Linden
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
Dizzy Mandala
Spin Spin Sugar
Join date: 8 Feb 2004
Posts: 82
09-01-2005 02:45
From: Jesrad Seraph
But the hassle is that we each have to voice our discontent about some chosen few calling themselves representatives of other SL residents, or else they might start thinking it a good idea.

If "they" is the chosen few they will think it is a good idea no matter what. If "they" is Linden Lab, they probably know what to think without the help of the forums. :cool:

This is the signal to take a vacation from the forums. Bye and don't stay up too late! :mad: :( :o ;)
Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nations
Join date: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 941
09-01-2005 04:02
From: Enabran Templar
You left out the best part: Anshe wanted the participants of that group's discussions enjoined from relating information shared in those meetings via an NDA. Delicious!


No she did not, read the transcript again....
_____________________
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Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nation
Rizal Sports Mentor

--------------------------------------------------------
Philip Linden: "we are not in the game business."
Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitue my own."
Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
09-01-2005 04:44
From: Kris Ritter
Yes.

Assuming that nothing actually comes of it, of course. Hopefully it was just Philip sitting down for half hour to appease some of the big mouths in the hope they'd fuck off, as opposed to having any intention of fulfilling any part of their agenda.


LOL omg I love you! not in a sexual way but still i love you :D
_____________________
Pham Neutra
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 478
09-01-2005 05:19
From: Jesrad Seraph
So I invite all the "second class citizens" to form groups representing their own interests, since this seems to be the only way they can hope to, one day, get Lindens to discuss with them what Linden policies are to be passed in their favour.
Actually a good idea - and practiced widely in RL - if you leave out "second class citizens". Why not just call them "groups with other interests"?
Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
09-01-2005 05:32
I'm the sole member of my own little lobbying group. I demand equal treatment with regards to the MJW, and thus demand that Robin and Philip come to my secret meeting.

_____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
09-01-2005 05:35
Haysoos Kreestay - speaking of Prokofy joining the Romans - can't you people read a transcript? Skura is correct; and Philip Linden was diplomatically dropping bricks on this Metawatch Justice Universe thangay group.

I'd say the meeting was a matter of a bunch of people being embarrassed without knowing it.
_____________________
Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
09-01-2005 05:41
Philip Linden: Having a group like this be the ones to disseminate and explain this kind of policy
Philip Linden: to the SL community would be a great thing.
Philip Linden: If I may also add:
Philip Linden: If we make something like this effective,
Philip Linden: there will doubtless be the issue of how one becomes a member
Philip Linden: as a resident,
Philip Linden: of the folks who site around this tabke.
Anshe Chung: Yes
Mulch Ennui: open enrollment
Hiro Queso: Its open membership
Philip Linden: let me suggest the following:
jewlz Cosmo gave you Snapshot.
Philip Linden: you guys come up with a solution to that,
Mulch Ennui: we have discussed structuring our group
Katt Kongo: ao on
Mulch Ennui: preliminary
Philip Linden: and we will require that we will participate
Margaret Mfume: t presentation of our ideas
Philip Linden: only to the extent that your choices are fair and open
Philip Linden: I would suggest...
Britsurfer Bauer: we welcome your involement
Philip Linden: that perhaps you require a commitment in time and energy,
Philip Linden: as the way to filter who is to come here,
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
09-01-2005 06:36
From: Kris Ritter
Yes.

Assuming that nothing actually comes of it, of course. Hopefully it was just Philip sitting down for half hour to appease some of the big mouths in the hope they'd fuck off, as opposed to having any intention of fulfilling any part of their agenda.


:D
_____________________
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-01-2005 06:45
Thank you for giving me flashbacks to French 3. I had to learn the entire damn French national anthem. The sad part is, I STILL KNOW IT BY HEART * sigh *. On the topic at hand, pardon my French, but that transcript is fucking scary. I need to think for a bit on what I want to say about it, but my initial reaction to it could not be more negative.
_____________________
Cristiano


ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less.

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Vestalia Hadlee
Second Life Resident
Join date: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 296
09-01-2005 07:01
A bunch of avs sitting around a boardroom table taking themselves seriously, and while I was sleeping a 10+ page thread gets generated by people pissed off enough to take them seriously.

I pay $72 a year for this.
_____________________
"Antipathy...against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. ."-- George Washington, Farewell Address 1793
Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
09-01-2005 07:02
From: Vestalia Hadlee
A bunch of avs sitting around a boardroom table taking themselves seriously, and while I was sleeping a 10+ page thread gets generated by people pissed off enough to take them seriously.

I pay $72 a year for this.


Dude THIS thread alone is worth the annual subs!
Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
09-01-2005 07:05
Such a catchy tune, eh, Cristiano ? :D The sarcastic part is that it's not required teaching in France.
_____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.