Letter N thoughts on Off Topic Vs. General forums

((Definitive Note: This is a sincere honest question and observation. Please do not troll nor hijack as this may be pertinent to all members that enjoy the forums. ))

Dear Forum Moderator,

This afternoon I tested the waters to see what was “General” and what was “Off Topic”.

Two threads were posted in conjunction to this and were summarily moved to “Off Topic”

However, reading other posts, there are a great number of topics, debates and personal diatribe that flow amongst the general forums.

So, my question is by definition what topics are allowed to stay in “General” versus any other forum moderation?

I ask this question in sincere curiosity as I see many personal debates that have nothing to do with SL in the general forums.

I’m not questioning why mine were moved, as I knew they should be from their initial inception.

The problem that I percieve is People have come to a point that they do not understand the definitions of what should or should not be in a specific forum area.

Each forum Headline does not give overall guidelines as to what sort of topic or thread should be initiated in each.

Could something like this be annotated as a sticky at the top of the forum as a "Read this First" before posting sort of thing?

Many Threads are started in heated anger or debate over a specific incident that happened within the world of SL and at times could lead to negative perception by those reading it.

If you would take a step back for a moment and look at the entirety of both forums, to be honest there is not much difference in the “Off Topic” Vs. the “General” forums. Again the question is what is the fine line that defines the difference.

Would it not behoove the general populace to be aware of such a definition?

I am looking at this as a dual fold element of reducing your workload while keeping assorted posts in one area of attention. Or by defining topic styles for each header.

Then you will see less “Testing” the waters type of posts as people will be clear as to what goes where and in most cases will refrain from posting idle banter such as I did earlier.

Another question would be is there such a method as self-moderation of topics on the forums?
For instance at the bottom of each thread after a member has read it they cast a simple vote by checking a forum sub title that it should go under.
Then after a set period of time in the general forum it calculates those votes and moves it to the appropriate sub forum.

Again a system like this would be adjudicated by the populace and not by the definitions of the topic by one person. This would elevate multiple instances of people re-firing the thread by creating another one.

Just looking at ways to help you help us.

Thank you for your time and patience in reading this and look forward to your response.

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver

Bump, good questions.

OZ, I suppose this was not important to anyone else even though the mere aspect of it eludes to some other interesting topics. So, I guess no one wanted to touch this one with a 10ft pole.

Shadow

General: About SL, but not primarily about any of the other topics like Land, Economy, Scripting, Building, or the like. (Which is why birthday posts should either die, or be in OffTopic)

Off-Topic: Things not about SL.

I know you posted this in a simi format of sarcasm but, I guess the point is lost that threads are moved that are definately applicable to your list yet others as you mentioned are allowd to stay.

The point is the moderation is flawed and part of the reason people tempt and test things as they are pot shoting threads to see what will and will not fly. Why? because there is no true critical decision or "letter of the Law" as to what they may or may not post.

Shadow

Actually, the only trace of sarcasm in that post was in the obviousness of the answer.

If you feel there are some examples of SL-oriented threads being moved to Off-Topic (before the thread veered off into Off-Topic-ness), I'd like to see them. (And no, the Zen thread does not count, because it was not originally about SL.)

I'm confused by this thread's title though. Is this thread brought to us by the letter N? Talk about Sesame Street flashbacks.

I preferred the Electric Company !! Much less condescending.

Ah sorry Mole, you missunderstand, I am saying there is more that needs to be moved a lot more.

But without clarification people can debate any aspect of a thread and deem it on or off topic.

The question is what is the definition of the topic AKA General. Summing it into the sub forums as you did is great. But what of those that do not idealy fall into any of the subs need to be called as General based on how it is now is too vague.

Addmittedly I was to lazy to type the word "and" at the time as I was inbetween phone calls when I wrote the title.

Shadow

This is kind of what I am talking about Mole, this statment alone is very vague in comparison as a lot of the threads that are started in Off topic eventually evolve into discussions about SL.

So Again I ask whats the true definition of General?

Does this mean all one has to do is make a simi reference to inworld and its equated to general?

Sorry for being presumptious but I'm sincerely curious as to what the standards are.

Do I want to be forum police? ...No I do not but at the same time I feel that a lot of drama personal attacks and inane drivel could be removed from the General forums.
Why? Because, a lot of the threads take a turn on a new tangent with in 1 or two intial posts and the initial topic is no longer crediable or valid to the discussion those threads carry.

So why have them accessible in General if they no longer as a whole represent the forum they are in?

Anyway I guess its all moot to discuss anyway.

Shadow

And as I said, the Zen thread was not a legal example. The thread's initial post read like poetry, and did not contain a single tie to anything related directly to SL. Ergo, it should belong in Off-Topic. If the thread somehow evolves to be about SL, then -maybe- it could be moved back to SL, but quite honestly, that was one very poorly written initial post in that thread, if the original author truely intended for the discussion to be about SL, and I predict that the discussion will most likely de-evolve into a much broader discussion about rules and perception and the world around us. Hell, that's actually the premise of the entire thread.



Yes. (I think. I'm not sure what "simi" is, or what "its equated to general" means, but yes, a thread must contain some solid reference to in-world topics to be considered for General.)



I've seen threads that are like that moved to Off-Topic. I think the problem you're seeing is that the moderators don't read every post everywhere. You have to bring their attention to a thread that has wandered off topic. If it's completely off-topic, and there's little chance of it getting back on topic again, chances are they'll move it. I know they've done it before.



Because the moderators are not reading every thread.

I'm going to step out of "Shadow's Twin" mode for a minute and make the following semi-serious suggestion... everyone who complains so vocally about the moderation of the SL forums should be forced to be moderator for a week. If after that week there is unanimous consent that they did a better job than the normal moderation, then, and only then, will their opinion be validated.

Ooh! Ooh! Me first!

*rubs hands together*

I actually moderated a rather popular forum for half a year or so (It's the... third? most popular Half-Life mod out there). I was its first moderator, and chosen by informal popular vote (can you believe that?!). I ended up spending 15+ hours a DAY at it. I burned out eventually. Just simply couldn't take any more. It wasn't that it was HARD, mind you. I enjoyed it. I just couldn't spend another minute staring at the damn thing.

You see I think thats where I am misunderstood on this. To be honest we are all adults and with a simple technical tool the forums would no longer need to be moderated by a single individual. Why no moderation by a single individual because SL is so dynamically different than any other organization that it should deem new tools or methods to control things. Additionaly a single individual cannot be a fair assessment of the forums as at times personal strife will interfere no matter who they are.

For instance our forums could be self moderated. Most people post things in General anyway so why not let it stay there set a time limit on it and add like a Poll of sorts to it that interacts with the movement. Such as at the end of 48 hours all votes taken on particular sub catagories are tallied and the most votes win where the thread is to be catalogued at. These votes I mentiond can be a simple radio button at the bottom of the thread for the reader to click on after they have read or posted to a topic.

But based on the replies recieved thus far one could surmise a person could simply post the following.

((This thread is about Second Life in General)) and with that statement could begin to write or post anything they wanted simply because it contains its about second life.

Sorry but thats not good enough and the moderation currently emplored is simply a waste of resources due to the bias of arbitrary selection. Personally I think Jeska could be a far more valuable asset to SL via a different venue. Such as public relations or customer service primarly areas that cannot be automated. The forums can be automated via the method I mentioned. Thus the whole reason I asked about rules and moderation.

And Chip Id Moderate em for a week but Id also have the highest Ban Count in the entire known ban listing of SL.

Anyway I digress this particular topic isnt going anywhere anyway. So I'm over it.

Shadow