Calling all Content Creators - Ethics Union

As an owner of a growing business in SecondLife and a passionate SecondLife resident I am very concerned with the current code of ethics. I don’t know how many would be interested but I was wondering if any other content creators and active business people would have a desire to help organize a meeting to possibly form an ethics committee / union.

I am aware that enforcing any misdoings is almost impossible in SL without putting RL finances on the line, very few including myself are willing to do that. What I am willing to do is somehow protect myself from anything that these risks can cause. A unified voice is always heard more clearly and I know for a fact when people brain storm together, ideas and solutions come to life.

If there is any interest please respond so I know if I am wasting my time. Thanks

Union's Suck.... If you don't own the land, you don't have a voice.

Vote No

there was a better business type organization that formed several months ago. i believe they had some sort of seal that you could post showing that you'd agreed to all their terms and were an ethically approved merchant according to their stated policies.

i don't remember what it was called; but you might manage to pull some of them out of the woodwork.

Of course you are wasting your time. You cant enforce ethics on people, and the people doing unethical things just wont join. Whats the point in having half the people subscribing to a code of ethics and the other half ripping them off? And since you can't do any kind of enforcement, what are you going to do? Name and shame? Hasn't stopped people continuing to sell other people's work so far. People like this aren't going to be dissuaded by little things like codes of ethics when they didnt have any in the first place. The Lindens don't enforce ethics on people. There is nothing you can do. And they'll always have plenty of unethical customers who couldnt care less whether the place has a code of ethics seal or not, as long as they were getting a good deal.

Sorry, but thats just the way I see it.

And btw, if you want to be taken seriously, you really have to obliterate the word 'union' from the discussion

I'm with you. As a minimum this could act as an information sharing resource so we know who has shafted whom. This will empower content creators.

Fundamentally Second Life needs to move out of the wild west and into civilisation. Some people like anarcho-capitalism - I don't personally.

They are called Rate and that is more of a consumer protection program.

I agree with this completly. It is unfortunate, but it is the simple truth of the situation currently in SL. As of right now, the only way to really enforce any kind of "rules" on others (outside the TOS) is to start or join a community. I know that Slate has certain guidelines for their residents, as do the members of Luskwood, and of course Neualtenburg, as well as some other of the group communities in SL (not to mention the private sims). These guidelines can stem from what you can build, to what you can sell, to what kinds of events you can hold, etc. It is really within these smaller communities that you are going to find more "order" and adherance to certain standards. That of course is my opinion.

i agree with this as well; however, the community at large can enforce some standard of decent behaviour by not supporting businesses owned or operated by what they consider shady people. this is a community dynamic though which is very hard to clock, must less control.


you people and your seriousness ha ha ha

My point was missed here. I am not interested in coming up with ways to enforce disciplines, just an organisation to create a standard ethics code and a UNION of honest business people who could throw ideas around and maybe come up with ways to take the current SecondLife economy and standards to the next level.

I am surprised a world of such creative people lack vision.

This was tried. It was called RATE. I understand it still meets. My experience with it was that every meeting turned into a rehash of the last 4 for whatever new person showed up and that votes for direction were revoted over and over seeking the outcome that the vote proposer wanted.

Commitees of all types are big time sinks. I suspect many content creators on in the same boat I am. We don't have a lot of time to spare for nonproductive meetings.

Surreal

We're still trying, Surreal... and you're right... it's hard when you need to go over the same ground time and again.

The best way to do this – and I think it’s necessary and inevitable – is to create a seal to be displayed (mandatorily) by all members in good standing. The seal should physically be owned by the Union (or board, if you must) so that it can be revoked if necessary. Members must pay a minimal dues so that the board can afford to ADVERTISE and promote the seal. When people are told to “look for the union label” they will. Then it will be worthwhile for businesses to join. Then more dues come in, the price of dues drops, more advertising, more businesses.

You might even branch off to dispute resolution between member businesses, and/or advocate for customers.

Start by creating a board, who will then discuss and publish a Statement of Ethics. It would be good to invite a cross section of various types of businesses, and some consumer advocates. Perhaps a Linden might be enticed to sit in as well. Then schedule another meeting where all citizens are invited to comment. A forum for this group will also be important. eventually, I think the board would be looked to for information and advice from many quarters.

I would be very glad to help out with this project.

i can't think of any Content Creator Ethics other than "don't rip people off and be careful the content you create doesn't cause too much lag". Kris was right tho, anyone who agrees does it already and anyone who doesn't will keep doesn'ting no matter what. nice thought but in the end prolly a waste of time for anyone who doesn't enjoy parliamentary procedure for its own sake.

ooooh shame people into joining. they're prolly chicken too.

wouldn't that be like having God on your board of directors? i mean if you ask for their official input and they say X who are you to do Y? they own the world. seems like it should be either an all Linden thing or leave them out. just a thought.

Isn't there RATE and the TOS already?

You can have as much vision as you like. But its good to try and stick to the reality of the situation at some level. And the reality is that you can change nothing.

If you think differently, then spell it out properly with a proposal and tell us what you think you could actually achieve and how it could be achieved rather than tossing an old idea in the air then criticising people for lacking vision for not immediately jumping at it.

What will come of creating a standards ethics code? What would a union of 'honest business people' be able to do? How are you going to take the economy to the next level?

Most people with ethics exercise them. I know who is or isnt an honest business person in Second Life, and I buy or don't buy from them according to how I feel about them. I support the people that work for their money, and boycott the ones that ride on their coattails or rip them off. I'm sure many people do the same. So what is it that you believe we can we do beyond that? How are you going to decide what is or isnt ethical? How do you define an 'honest' business person?

You just have to look at the dozens of threads about illegal copies, knockoffs, bad business practices and the like to see that there are as many opinions on the subject as there are people posting.

How do you suppose you are going to bring them together and make them all agree what is good or bad without pushing some peoples personal agendas? I'd have grave misgivings about any 'union' just in consideration of some of the people you know are going to be leading the charge and supporting it. So then you'll have people who wont be members because of your membership! But there's my ethics determining that your ethics arent up to my standards. Do I get ostracised as a content creator for my ethics being more stringently applied than your unions? Tough one, innit?

And while its a noble sentiment to act as an 'information sharing resource' on 'who has shafted who'. how are you going to do this any more effectively than the way people talk to each other now about their dealings inworld without falling foul of the ToS or at the very least one hell of a lot of drama?

When you can display some of your 'vision' and answer some of these questions above and beyond what has been discussed time and time again week in week out, then perhaps people may be more willing to listen.

There are lots of ethical guidelines that would help both vendors and customers. I’m not going to start decreeing what I want to see, but I can give some examples of what ‘m thinking.

For instance, a good guideline would be that all businesses clearly label all items that cant be returned as “No Returns on this Item”

Or, that any refunds be given within 7 days, or that sales records will be kept separate from the interface and stored for two to four weeks.

Or that vendors will not discriminate according to avatar appearance, gender, etc.

Or that disputes between two member businesses will be arbitrated by the board.

Or that all items over a certain price must have a return possible within a certain time.

Or that vehicles must be copyable and that those that are lost must have the ability to derez themselves. Or vehicles must be able to tell the owner where they are.

Or some of these, or more, or whatever. The point being that this organization is to advocate for customers. And that businesses who comply will get special notice – and more business – from consumers. And that customers will have one central contact for problems they cant, or feel uncomfortable, resolving with vendors. And vendors will have clear standards that will guide them in creating a high-quality reputation. Everyone knows what to expect. In fact, the seal on display should be scripted to give the customer a copy of the current guidelines before they even shop.

[on edit: By the way, this is also a good opportunity to create the elusive Business Directory that many people have wanted to publish. It would be very excellent to be able to waltz up to a seal and click it to recieve Guidelines and a current list of members and what they sell - with just a titch of advertising, perhaps.]

As for having a Linden sit in on a meeting or hearing, that is only for the board’s convenience. So that they don’t rule some way that’s legally, or technically difficult or impossible. Also, so that the Lindens know what is going on. I am absolutely positively sure that the Lindens do NOT want to run such a board. They are SO eager for us to start creating our own ways of resolving conflict that the MOST I’d expect them to interfere is to maybe cut the board a deal on advertising the seal. Maybe. And I’m not even sure that would be proper for the board to do.

So, no, I would expect no interference from the Lindens.

In the end, the answer to all these thorny questions about conflict resolution, self-governance, standards, ethics, etc, will come down to voluntary enforcement. There is no other way, given the way things are structured in online worlds. If we want to have standards, then we’ll have to find some way to entice people to put themselves in a position where they let the rules be applied to them.

I see this project as an excellent step toward that goal.

I have a confession to make. Anytime I see that Kathy has posted in one of the threads I keep track of, I rush to read it. Is that stalking? I think I'm in love with her brain.

Great, Now I'm speechless. Smooth move.

Ya know. The more I think about this, the surer I am that it's time to do it.

Anyone feel brave enough to committ to a few meetings?

First of all, you need to adress us by our proper title: Feted Inner Core.

Thought that was a given

Ok, anyone in (or out of) the Fetid Inner Core willing to help create a voluntary organization for arbitration and standards?

Or, I could put it this way: anyone want to belong to an elite group of people who can make other people feel like you're Lord of Everything (even though you wont be)?

This is exactly the kind of group that will piss off Prokfy.

Anyone?

Second Life Arbitration and Business Standards ?

Meetings to talk about it?

Anyone?

Hmm... Elitist Oldbies Against Uppity Noobs And Midbies or EOAUNAM for short... should be easy enough to remember and pronounce. Open to anyone who's name isn't Prokofy.

Well, at least it'll be a swift and efficient meeting. Voting shouldn't take long either