Should LL implement an income tax?

It looks like the idea of a sales tax in SL is pretty unpopular. I'd have to say, I agree. A sales tax offers little more economic purpose than as a generic sink, or revenue stream for a government. It doesn't help balance or strengthen the economy, and is sort of like attacking the economic issues of a system with a large blunt object

What about an income tax though? (for those making over a certain amount of L$, similar to the American tax system, where low-wage earners don't pay taxes)

There seems to be growing discontent and animosity in SL between the "haves" and the "have nots". People harboring bad feelings towards land barrons, the rich, etc.

An Income Tax is sound economic policy, helping mainly "level the playing field" between the very rich, and the poor.

The whole point of an income tax (besides revenue for the governing body) is to force those making and hoarding large amounts of cash into recirculating money into the economy (or in LL's case, taking money out of the economy, ie a 'sink'). Hoarding doesn't do any common good (except to the hoarder).

Estate taxes have the same purpose.

All industrialized countries have them, and alot of the original thinking was to avoid the creation of a "ruling class" within a democratic society, of "robber barron" aristocrat-like rich groups that control a vast majority of a nation's wealth.

As a good example of countries that do not have progressive tax policy, look at alot of central america. In many countries there, you have small groups of people (often less than 25 individuals) controlling 30% or more of the entire nation's wealth. This is a horrifying thought, and something I hope SL can avoid.

Modern day democracies view such individuals as a threat to democracy themselves (forming an obliarchy within a democracy), which is why there has been such a push for more progressive tax policy in the past 100 years or so.

Such a tax wouldn't even have to be large.. even something very, very small (1%, or 0.5%, for instance) could provide a massive sink to LL and help invigorate and strengthen the economy.

My prediction is that everyone will hate this idea (people hate taxes, especially those who expect to be taxed), but it's at least something worth considering on a theoretical or hypothetical level.

Thoughts, anyone? I'd love to hear other people's input on this

Lets just do our best to keep the discussion mature. I'm not advocating socialism, or even saying that LL should institute an income tax.. I'm just interested in hearing debate on the subject.

Why not call it what it is? "Should we reduce stipends even more?"

Sure... tax my income and those taxes will be passed on to my customers... ummmm just like in RL. Oh.. and the under the table economy will flourish.. all of a sudden there will be shit load of "gifts". Oh and people like myself who pass $L back and forth with my partner will have to worry about that being called income.


Surreal

My thoughts on the matter are:

HELL NO!!!!

Only a newbie could advocate the implementation of any tax whatsoever.
I should start teaching classes on SL history

An income tax...hmmm. Well..I have to vote with an emphatic NO to this lame idea.
First of all the thought of further punching the users in the stomach with another pull from thier L$ piggy banks is foolish on several fronts. It increases the discontent that we are only now getting some kind of handle on. Where are these "taxes" going to go?

If they go to event support - clubs and what have you - then you are simply robbing people that don't attend them to support people that can't figure out how to run thier business.

Leave our L$ alone. Let the user community figure out how to manage the present system in such a way that the club owners have to come up with ideas to finance thier ventures. Be it tip jars, admission fees...whatever. They should be counting on thier attendees to support them, not the populace of SL.

We have already done the "tax thing" pre version 1.2 Been there done that not looking to do it again. Time to move on to something else.

Even if you ask "Should your Country have an Income Tax" they will say "No".

I wonder if many people claim profits from this game as income on their tax returns? I seriously doubt it.

Absolutely Not!

The worst drain on fun ever is to feel like you're being constantly hit for money

We already pay a monthly fee for our accounts, PLUS tier payments for our land, if LL taxes us as well, that's the end... I'd sell all my land to cut off all incomes to LL, I'd sell my weak stipends on GOM, and I wouldn't ever log in except once a month to do that.

LL gets quite enough money from me. I'm NOT paying tax.

Fuck levelling the playing field. I work until my eyes hurt and my wrists are on fire to build cool stuff, and I feel I am entitled to every L$ I am paid. If someone wants to have more L$, let them A) do something that other residents find useful and worthy of paying for, or B) buy it on GOM or IGE.

I'm with you Eggy. We've seen the effects of what happened after taxes were relieved. Things like, exponential user base growth, exponential land growth, far more creativity in builds and avatars, a *healthy* level of commerce. Yeah taxes == bad.

EDIT: cuz I saw huns' post and had to agree


Preach it brother Huns! The "haves" in SL are "haves" because we have worked our asses off.
There are so many ways to make money in SL through creativity, cooperation and hard work, I have no sympathy frankly.

Once again...

There.com called, they want their economic ideas back.

LF

Sure. Put a tax on me and I'll charge it right back to my customers. At the end of the day I'll probably profit

It is impossible to implement income tax. Income is not what people pay you. It is what people pay you minus your expenses, both in world and outside (e.g. buying Photoshop). Not even most perfect bureacracy could capture this properly.

Beside, some of us are paying RL income tax for SL income already.

we pay considerable land taxes. that's enough.

Yes

Pay a tax to finance money ball events? I think not.

The OP obviously was not around when SL had taxes. It was the most horrible thing you could possibly imagine and for a time pretty much completely broke the game for anybody doing anything more meaningful than chatting. It was the only time I seriously considered quitting SL.

Also, if you have income taxes, I want income tax writeoffs and breaks. And let's not forget Not For Profit efforts. Have fun figuring that one out.

You want nothing to do with 'em believe me.

I spend years working on coding and scripting, modelling, and thinking through basic game designs, hundreds of hours in SL alone.

How about we level the playing field by throwing anybody who is essentially useless and has never put anything even moderately interesting into SL out of the game.

I'm with my friends on this... which is... er... just about everyone who posted.

The idea would be curious as an "isolated experiment" as participated in consensually by a concentrated community. In part, to see what sort of calculated misery or ire it could stir up. Not gridwide though, or even beyond the foreseeable span of a few sims.

It is not to my personal preferences to have these "taxes in the wild". I'd much rather have my "primitives in the wild", thankyouverymuch.

Actually, calling oblique a newb is a bit of an incorrect assumption...

He's been around since 11/17/2003, well before version 1.2 was a glint in the lindens' eye.

LF

I just have to say HELL NO.

Income taxes are a terrible idea in 1st Life, I want no part of them in SL.

Since there's no NDA on the conference call I took part in... how long ago? Almost a year? Under a year? Whenever 1.3 came out I think... whichever version added the land tier system.

I thought you'd like to know that LL actually did consider having an income tax (at that time) in Second Life. Now the thing is, the instant I heard it, I thought of something very silly. I decided to talk about it as soon as our conference came upon the subject.

(Note, the following is by memory, I have no clue if they are the actual words used.)

Dave Zeeman: "So this income tax... does it apply to person-to-person monetary transactions?"
Philip Linden: "Yes. Otherwise people would simply use that as a loophole to selling their content."
Dave Zeeman: "Okay, because I'm envisioning two people giving 10 bucks back and forth and, with income tax, eventually ending up with having no money at all..."
Everyone in conference: "Hahahaha!"
Philip Linden: "Wow Dave, you've made my day."

After that, income taxes were never heard from again.

You guys ought to thank me. I saved Second Life from income taxes. Single-handedly!

LMAO omg you remember that call geesh that was ages ago Dave.

OMG No!!! We have enough of taxes in this tiny country, so I prefere a GAME w/o taxes!

Bring back the light tax!