A few comments about land shortage -- entirely directed to the Lindens.

I hope they read this.

My situation: I run a business located in Da Boom. This business >must< be in an M rated sim. Unfortunately, Da Booms so full that it gets very very laggy, even when they aren't that many people. I'd like to move my club to a better sim, but it seems there aren't any. I'm either faced with there being to room land-wise, or no room prim-wise.

Earlier today I spoke with a few Lindens about possibly releasing a little land they own in a sim that had prim-room. I'm told they don't do that anymore. Whether that's because of the sim I asked about, or if it's blanket policy, or in reaction to me particularly, I have no idea. (if anyone had Lindens release land -very- recently for private purchase, I'd really like to know, thanks)

My point: I have no real point except to say that this is one unhappy customer because the M sims are so damn full. Am I somehow special? DO the Lindens have to hear me out? Does any of what I'm saying matter to anyone?

Probably not.

However, I a, going to go on and say right now, I'm really glad I haven't bought a lifetime subscription yet. I had been planning to, but I'm really a little upset that I'm stuck in Molassesville, sorry, Da Boom. And no other sim can releive me of this problem the way things are now. All I can change is the name of the M rated sim, the problem for me remains.

Lindens, this, for me, is a serious question. As someone who wants to continue as a player in SL, I need to know. Are you going to open more sims? When? Will there be M rated ones? And finally, are all new sims going to be opened with a land auction?


Again, I'm not asking as a current customer. I'm not asking as a future customer. This question comes from someone who's trying, at this moment, to decide if I should stick with the game. Someone who's more than a little tired of not being able to rez a single prim. Who's tired of walking and moving in slow motion because the sim is so full and laggy. Someone who's wondering if they should continue paying for these frustrations.

I'd appreciate a -real- answer. I kind of -expect- a real answer. Thank you.

Well I guess I got my answer indirectly with the 1.2 changes.


It was great knowing everyone, but I am not going to play There no matter what name it's called.

im with you jellin. this is far too Therelike. I am giving myself till the changes are officially in effect to cool off, but if they go thru with this im out.

I think we all need to take a step back.... these changes could be really cool or they could really suck.

At this point I don't think we know enough to say either way. I'm taking a wait and see attitude. As I've said... if this turns into There I am SO outta here. If not..... we'll see.

Thanks, Corwin.

We've been working on these changes for months and decided to make them because we feel that they will make Second Life a better place.

Second Life is taking a completely different approach than There.com. Yes, you will be able to use real money if you want to undertake very large scale builds (builds nearly impossible with the current tax system) but that will be a very small number of users. Some users will pay the same amount they would now, many will pay less.

Unlike There.com, Second Life does not charge you to create in world and does not make you buy L$. Instead, you get a stipend every week!

Tell me if I'm wrong, but looking at the fee schedule, it seems to me that you'll have to pay if you want to do any building at all.

The one-time fee of $9.95 will let you play, but won't give you any land to build on. The only difference between the one-time fee and the $9.95/month option is that the monthly option gives you land to build on and a prim allowance.

The one time fee gets you a stipend, but no land. For land you'll need to pay something monthly...but you had to in 1.1 too. The only monkey wrench there is HOW MUCH land you need, which may increase or decrease what you need to pay monthly.

This is great for people who don't own land or don't own much land, bad for people who own alot. Is it better overall? We'll see I guess. One nice thing is that land may be more evenly distributed among players now, reducing the huge differences in ownership among players.

Here's another huge consequence of this change: To maintain very large builds/projects/etc, having lots of community support (other players) will be key. I think this will increase the amount of social teamwork, in order to work on those large projects that can't be done by one person.

Even things out? How so? Under the new system, I could own all the land in three or four sims, something that not even the richest person under the old system could manage.

Yes but with my current in game resources I could own way more land than I will be able to under the new system. Not everyone has RL cash to burn... but I could earn and spend as much L$ as I wanted. Not true anymore.

People that can spend $600-$800 a *month* for 3-4 sims are in the extreme minority, that's how much that would cost.

Maybe I'm underestimating the amounts that the majority of players are willing to pay for land, but judging from all the "I'm quitting" and "I'll never pay more for (etc)" posts here, I'm not ready to concede that point yet. What I think will happen (IMO) is that people that aren't willing to burn lots of money will band together more.

I think they're guilty of catering to the masses here, which is what every company must do if they want to stay alive. Really, if you own huge tracts of land and huge complex builds, you're not one of the "masses".

If we want lots of land or complex builds, I think we'll have to be more cooperative. The other option is "be rich" IRL, which isn't exactly fair, but I guess that's just life. I feel your pain, I'm a way underemployed software developer, so I don't have $ to throw around.

Sure there's downsides but I think they did this to keep this whole thing going and now just to screw people over or "make a buck"--I don't think they've made a single buck yet! Perhaps the alternative was to declare bankruptcy next year.

Or, think of it this way....maybe LL will feed off the "rich" like a vampire in order to keep Second Life running.

(Oh, and I'm not sure I'd say that yet Misnomer, I think I remember reading something about using L$ to get land from a Linden post around somewhere. Could be wrong though.)

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If that is the case, then they should say so. Let me tell you a story:


A long time ago, there was an online gaming company. They produced a very popular game, with a dedicated fanbase. People could play for free, as the game was supported by advertising revenue. Then, one day, they announced that they would charge money for people to play on a server that had built-in support for team play. The players, who were accustomed to playing for free, protested mightily at this. The company said that there would be prizes awarded to the top players. The best players announced that they did not want prizes, if it meant having to pay. A quarter of the player base left in protest. So great were the protests, that the company gave up the plan to charge for playing. Further, they said, since they were losing ten thousand dollars a year running the game, they would not be able to run the team play server, and they would increase the number of ads to attempt to cover the losses. A year later, the company was no longer offering the game.


The players at the time were dedicated enough that, if the company had simply announced that they were losing money running the game, the players would have volunteered to pay a subscription fee to keep the game going. I feel that the Second Life community is at least as dedicated.

Well I think it's pretty obvious (IMO) that LL is not making money here. I've thought about the math (accounting) involved and probably seen a post or two about it, and it never looked pretty in my opinion.

Do you really think things could continue with the old system? (I'm genuinely asking, not trying to make you look wrong.)

SL in a way just experienced its first 'bubble'. The land and lindenbucks being utilized, the stress on the servers with more users coming in, increased turnover of userbase due to inherent scarcity of existing land/prim resources prompted this.

You guys from Beta were living in a dot-com-ish fantasy for a bit, so it is hard to come down to earth. But overall at the end of the day, I think it will be worth it to continue the viability of the SL metaverse.

so we've been delta testing. welcome to gamma everyone.