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REAL ID Act

Lianne Marten
Cheese Baron
Join date: 6 May 2004
Posts: 2,192
04-04-2005 12:29
I haven't read all of it yet, but the part that I was focusing on is section 102...

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SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS.

Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:

`(c) Waiver-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--

`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or

`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.

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What I take this to mean is that if the Secretary of Homeland Security wants to build a 10 foot concrete wall between the US and Canada... and it happens to go right through the middle of Glacier National Park... or the habitat of an animal protected under the ESA... or any other numbers of things...

And no matter the context, not allowing Judicial Review under any circumstances kinda scares me.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:3:./temp/~c109NzlLKi::
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
04-04-2005 12:42
What I'm wondering is whether or not the barricade is to keep terrorists out or Americans in.

(sort of not joking here)


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I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To :D
Akuma Withnail
Money costs too much
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 347
04-04-2005 12:42
That any government official or agency should have the power to arbitrarily waive laws smacks of totalitarianism. The Secretary of Homeland Security has just been put above the law. Did the Congress and Senate actually sign off on this? :eek:
Lianne Marten
Cheese Baron
Join date: 6 May 2004
Posts: 2,192
04-04-2005 12:43
It is now in Senate Committee after being recieved from the House.
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Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
04-04-2005 12:55
The part where they say: (2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court, administrative agency, or other entity shall have jurisdiction--

That scares me the most, particularly when you consider that Majority Leader Tom DeLay wants retribution against judges who ruled on the Schiavo case. As this country moves closer and closer to totalitarianism in the guise of security, a minority of people who value their freedoms will begin to look else where.

When people are forced to expatriate either for economic or political reasons, America will see a "brain drain" that will hurt. When the happens, my question is, are they going to barricade us in or barricade others out?


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I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To :D
Agatha Palmerstone
Space Girl
Join date: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 185
04-04-2005 13:09
From: Rose Karuna
When people are forced to expatriate either for economic or political reasons, America will see a "brain drain" that will hurt. When the happens, my question is, are they going to barricade us in or barricade others out?


I think they are planning for this already.

Part of the reason why it hasn't happened too much yet, is there's nowhere universally appealing to go (that would readily accept smart, but not wealthy people). Of course, that may be part of their plan. Perhaps if any country becomes too free, it will be accused of "harboring terrorists" and destroyed.
koolhand Koolhaas
Uncensored McGillicuty
Join date: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 996
04-04-2005 13:25
With this kind of crap going on, it is hard to argue with the rest of our non-US acquaintances when they start US bashing.

Then what drives me nuts is when you raise reasonable questions ("why does an angency specifically not want to be subject to judicial review";) the red neck mentality raises it's ugly Pabst Blue ribbon breathe and says "Yer a Damn Commie!".
Liona Clio
Angel in Disguise
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,500
04-04-2005 14:24
Panic over nothing. Do you know what the most liberal judge in the US and the most conservative judge in the US can agree on?

DONT TREAD ON MY POWER.

This law will never survive a court test, any more than Terry's Law and Terry's Law II: Washington Bugaloo could. It will take a lot more than sneaky provisos to bypass the judicial system.
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"Well, my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle."
Rose Karuna
Lizard Doctor
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,772
04-04-2005 15:01
From: Liona Clio
Panic over nothing. Do you know what the most liberal judge in the US and the most conservative judge in the US can agree on?

DONT TREAD ON MY POWER.

This law will never survive a court test, any more than Terry's Law and Terry's Law II: Washington Bugaloo could. It will take a lot more than sneaky provisos to bypass the judicial system.



With all my heart, I hope your right.

I was heartened to see that they stuck to the letter of the law in the Schiavo case despite political pressure and differences in personal opinion about right to die issue.

As it stands, the judiciary is the only body of government that may stand between the government being allowed to kick your door down in the dark of night and imprison you for years in some foreign country and your ability to face your accusers in a court of law and get a fair trial.

One can only hope that enough representatives in Congress and the Senate actually wake up and realize that passing the Patriots act has the potential to change the face of our country in ways that could completely invalidate the constitution if the powers it grants are used by unethical people.

While some may argue that this administration is good and ethical, not everyone who gets elected in the future will be. The reason that we have lasted this long and have been so successful as a country is because no ever had that kind of power combined with the ability to enforce it.

Unfortunately, the idea of a concrete barrier between the U.S. and Canada really brings to mind the Margaret Attwood novel "The Handmaiden's Tale", where the religious right take over in the US and all the secular types are trying to make it over the border to Canada and being shot as they flee. It's an exterme analogy, but one I can't help but visualize.

:(

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I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To :D