Texas Holdem- New Players Beware

I realized last night that Holdem is not really the safest game to play. In two differet game I sat in, at two different casinos, the table was being hustled by friends communicating in IM. I play ALOT of poker in RL and know a game that stinks when I smell one.

It is not brain surgery. Player A sits on one side of the table, Player B on the other end. They chat via IM and in a sense are betting with two hands instead of one. When Player A has a good hand, player B keeps raising them, not matter WHATS in their hand, of coarse it works visa-versa also.

This one game was so obvious I decided never to play again. From the pre-flop. These two kept working as a team getting the pot as high as possible. At the end of the hand, one of them would always have NOTHING in their hand. I know people try to bluff, but this was obviously team work. The one that had nothing in their hand would always say something like "oops I thought I had two kings not one". Yet all through the game they kept raising the others bet, all they had was a 10 high, not even a pair to bet on. If this happend one or two hand I would understand, these people did it almost everyhand tho. It also ended up, one would have a good hand, the other one shitty yet they both always stayed until the end raising each other.

They always checked and raised at the perfect time to keep a bet going around a table many many times. It is a racket and people not familiar with poker have to know how to watch out for this.

You might say it still does not effect my chances in getting a good hand that could beat them, thats not my point. What this does is takes everyones ability to bet smart out of the game. It is why signaling and running a table together is illegal in casinos and can actualy get you thrown in jail.

Yes, a system of communication between two players is one of the oldest scams at the table, and when I heard of Texas Holdem I thought how IM's would be a perfect way to do that. No one could tell me how that could be avoided, so I never played. With a three-way and a full table, the set-up would be perfect.

Hmm... I dunno about this, I think this may a bit too much assumption... Asri and I play Texas Hold Em' at times and no matter what our hands are we raise and stay in the game to benefit our guests... sometimes we win, sometimes we lose... but I dont think its fair to call anyone that does this "cheaters or scammers".

whoa!

i have never set at a poker table in second life, but have played friendly games rl and always thought i would try my hand at it in sl soon. this is a real eye opener, and this information needs to be widely diss... disemina.... disseminat... spread around.

not good. not good at all. there needs to be a safeguard and until one is created i wont play that.

marilyn

Sensual, any private discussion in IM concerning that what cards you have is cheating. The two people talking have an obvious advantage over the other not included. It is illegal in RL and it is just as unfair in SL.
If it was not unfair, or cheating or a scam, or what ever you want to call it, this practice would be legal in RL. In the old days in casinos, security would just take you out back and break your hands when you were caught passing signals across the table.

Also, its not like they raised no matter what, when neither of the two or three people involved had decent cards, they would all just fold. But when ONE of them had a good hand, they keep the bet going around the table knowing the odds were greatly in their favor.

How anyone can try and say this is not cheating is beyond me.

Collussion is the oldest trick in the book, and is certainly a possibility in SL Holdem. However, I've never been too worried about it because I usually play for stakes that aren't very high (at least in US$ terms).

The professional online sites (PartyPoker.com, UltimateBet.com, etc.) have sophisticated detection algorithms designed to weed out such cheaters. In SL, we'll have to leave it up to the poker rooms to do such detection, and to deal harshly with anyone suspected of cheating.

If it were my poker room, and I saw such betting, I'd give them each one warning. If I saw that sort of behavior again, I'd boot them out, no questions asked.

Its better to err on the side of kicking/banning a legitmate player who raises with dog dooh-dooh, than to allow such cheats to hang around.

I would suggest that the SL poker room operators get together and share lists of people suspected of cheating.

- Ace

I sat in on a game just recently where i suspected team work taking place, its the first time in SL that I noticed it. I will continue to play TH however. I took note of the avatars and will never sit at a table with either one of them again.

Most of the people playing are honest, keep that in mind before judging SL poker.

If you are up for a fair game IM me and if i'm in a game i'll tp you and introduce you to the honest players I know.


Rafe

Poker with friends is supposed to be a fun experience, and also one where there's a sense of honor and honesty amongst those friends. This is a damn shame.

Technically, I think allowing scripts to turn off players IMs would be a BIG help.. in other words, when you sit at the table, you get a pop up like animations permissions saying, "This script requires you to disable your instant messages. Your instant messages will be saved until you leave no-IM mode."

We have "busy mode" and "away mode", but a "no IM" invisibility mode would also be great, and put an end to cheating like this.

Regards,

-Flip

Thanks for the eye opener I played my first game the other day and won so the game could *not* have been gamed.

It was fun, the crowd friendly, and the stakes low enough that even if there were collusive players it wouldn't have mattered. This was at Bobby Dayton's place - which I might add is a very un-laggy club. I have no connection with Dayton other than he hosted an event that I won L$300 at and has a nice build. Collusive players could play there, they didn't seem to be then.

Unfortunately, this leaves AIM, MS-Messenger, Yahoo and even POTS (plain old telephone service) as possible communications media. Disabling SL IM's wouldn't disable squat for determined cheaters.

- Ace

Vey true Flip, however MSN, YaHoo, Aim, Skype, people in the same room.... can't script for all those things. The best alternitve we have is a black book. (For those who don't know, The Black Book of the RW is a list of all known and suspected cheats that the casinoes share with one another.) Then there is the alter avatar, how many accounts can one person make?

If you're going to play, you must trust the people who sit at the table with you. The only way to develope that trust is to play with them in the first place. I'll not post any names or even share my suspicions of who the two people are that i'm refereing to. I officialy will however be on the look out for cheaters. Keep a list, and if the owners of clubs ask me about a specific avie, i'll say yes or no they're (not) on the list. For now the list is empty. I'll risk my $L against the two afore mentioned players and if the trend continues they're on it.
Players are welcome to IM me the names of suspected cheats. Once a certain threshold (unknown at this time) of complaints is logged against a certain avatar they'll be added. I might even have levles....
IE:
1-2 reported instances
3-4 reported instances
5 or more
and the dredded HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY BANNED FROM CERTAIN
PROPERTIES

The popularity of Hold'em in SL will draw these asses, its up to the players and the people hosting the game to ensure a fair (or as close as possible) enviroment for the honest folk to play in.

Rafe


Yeah what Ace said when I was posting, and AFK. LOL

I wanna learn how to play Poker, do these events you hold teach new players how to play the game?

There are low limit tables (4/2 blinds), and i was told by one of the people involved with making the tables that a no risk table may be made some time in the near future.

Contact Mr. Fairplay in world, i'm sure he would be happy to point you to the right table to learn at.
And be sure to take a look at this link too http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/beginnersintro.php

Or ROFL--- add me to your calling card list and i will be happy to stand behind you in a game and give you instructions and reasoning behind certain tacts used in the game. This would be in IM and totaly known to all the players at the table. I'll pay the buy in and if we win split the winnings with you.

Rafe

I just realized what I typed did not come across right. I have also sat in on many fun games with honest people. I lie when I say I wont play again, because I know people who would do this in SL are in the minority

Thanks for the heads-up, I was tempted at one point to try this, but suffice to say I'll just stick with building. Or at a minimum, only play with friends.

Collusion is a guaranteed in these games because there is no reason not to do it, Poker is not an honor game, its based on deception. I never even played the SL tables and I can tell you IM'ing and whipsawing is goin on. The only way around it is private invite only tables and the "Black Book" system mentioned by Rafe. Even the software on Partypoker and Pokerstars dosent protect you. It only identifies the most blatent collusion and is advertised as solid to make people feel safe. If u have a gut feeling somone is cheating just leave the table, even if they are not cheating there is a possibility they found a hole in your play, either way your gonna loose money.

Asri and Sensual if u play that loose pleeeeeese let me sit at your next game

As others have said, collusion is inevitable. This is one of the reasons I have made zero effort towards having poker at any of my places. I simply dont want the hassle.

The responsibility ultimately lies with the cardroom owner to weed out colluders.

Colluders should be perma banned on the first offense. Period.

While we are on the subject of improper poker practices ... poker table owners who get the rake should NOT also play the game. It gives a very signifigant unfair advantage to the table owner .. especially with an 8% rake. This is not actually illegal in the real world though and is not in the same category as collusion .. dealers that do so are called "shills" actually. Nevertheless, it is frowned upon and most players dont really like it... for good reason.

I predict this is just the beginning of poker based problems in SL. It is up to the card room owners to create and implement a policy for such things. Of course if the table is automatic there wont be much the owner can do if they arent around .. well unless extensive logging is built into the system.

As always ... be careful out there!

-AP

What a disappointing development. Thanks for the heads up Beau.

Sorry to hear that Beau.

I was at the same game, i believe, at 4pm or something, CatTropez. I won just one hand, and basicly all my other hands sucked (as usual, lol). But I raised the bets all the way on my last hand before i called it a day, just to build up a nice pot for the winner. That may have been a suspicious act, but i did that just for fun, since it was my last hand. All in all, I only lost L$250 for the hour i played. Poker is just a lot of fun for me, also in SL.

I have a table myself, and I often have newbies there, trying to learn the game (Using 2/4 bets). I will IM you when I get in-world later today. I want to make sure that the cheaters are NEVER at my table.

I have seen instances where I think people would be doing just this. But i have also decided to take it upon myself to fix it. I play tight, no matter what. And ontop of that, if I have a killer hand, nothing is going to change whether or not i would win. The point of the matter is, the only diff in that gameplay and noncheating is the amount of money you lose, and asfar as im concerned, i play small blind games to avoid this 1, and 2 I make sure that if i go all the way to the river, i've got a hand i believe in. And one that can kick someones ass

Moonshine, the game we were at is not one of the games in question. I left one of the games I am talking about and sat in your game. I think at one time I said at your table I thought someone was doing it, that was just paranoia on my part though. I was skeptical of any game after my experience.

NOPE cant claim that, the money I lost in that game was ALL my doing.

I agree on the huge unfair house advantage but a rake is a rake so at least the money could be back in play on another hand with the house in play. There are many other reasons why I don’t like rakes so I do completely agree with your statement.
Changing you style of play and seat placement helps allot to avoid the "Whip Saw" technique used by cheaters. A tight player like Aydan should do well and any of the small stakes tables. Low stakes tables are notorious for people jamming the pot for the hell of it. A tight player can really cash in on this, however, between the house rake and collusion this can put a big leak in your bankroll and may mean the difference between a good night and great night. Also don’t fall into the trap of letting your half ass hands see you to the river. Just because someone else won with a pair of 5's in the hole at a full table doesn’t make it good card playing.

Aces: SL is as good a place as any to learn poker rules. The action is slow so that helps allot. My advice is to Read and Play, Read and Play. Keep in mind money games are different that lindie games and RL games are different that computer games, also playing tight is better than playing loose 99.9% of the time.


Sorry about the poker dissertation. Good Luck )