Closing of threads about bans/suspension

Jeska,
You closed the Shepp thread saying it doesnt belong here when the forum guidlines posted by Haney and Peter suggest otherwise. Not that that particular thread mattered but if you are closing a thread because personal attacks no problem thats your job but closing a thread on a suspension/banning citing that it doesnt belong here is wrong...it does...especially if someone believes they were suspended or banned wrongly.

A note on Second Life forum posts:

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The Second Life forums exist to promote the community of Second Life. Forum threads can contain discussions on a wide range of topics. The discussion may contain dialog that could be classified as a "heated conversation" between various parties. As long as the forum contains relevant discussion to the conversation at hand, Linden Lab will not make any effort to curtail or otherwise censor the conversation.
In the event that the dialog changes from a discussion with conflicting opinions to personal attacks, Linden Lab will lock the thread (prevent further posts).

Please remember that your posts are public, and that any messages posted here are left in perpetuity. We ask that all residents be respectful of differing opinions and thank you for your understanding

"Every effort will be made to take into consideration the general feeling of the forum, but Linden Lab has the final say. If Linden Lab takes disciplinary action against you that you believe was unfair or inconsistent, you may appeal the decision. An appeal is an e-mail or private message explaining your situation and why you believe you should not have been disciplined. Appeals must be sent via e-mail only to [email]abuse@secondlife.com[/email], and must follow this appeals procedure, or they will not be considered. You may submit only one appeal per disciplinary action."

Although I already addressed this in another thread, I'll post it again, the current forum guidelines do NOT allow for the posting of specific appeals for disciplinary action.

From the current forum guidelines, available here (/invalid_link.html):

"Every effort will be made to take into consideration the general feeling of the forum, but Linden Lab has the final say. If Linden Lab takes disciplinary action against you that you believe was unfair or inconsistent, you may appeal the decision. An appeal is an e-mail or private message explaining your situation and why you believe you should not have been disciplined. Appeals must be sent via e-mail only to [email]abuse@secondlife.com[/email], and must follow this appeals procedure, or they will not be considered. You may submit only one appeal per disciplinary action."

Thank you Jeska

Sorry... but she had answered in about 5 other threads, I dont know why you made another thread to ask...

I didn't see it as an appeal from Aces but I know some made appeals on her behalf...I just wanted to make sure we could still discuss such issues....thanks Jeska

If you check the times the ONE other thread was posted at basically the same time so I didnt see it

I have no faith in the appeals process. At the time I received my suspension I sent an appeal and never received a reply. I expressed myself clearly and calmy and did not even get a response back. I sent an email asking why I didnt get a reply and it was also dismissed. To this day I have not received a response to my suspension appeal. In fact I still don’t even know what I did to warrant the suspension. So if you going to ask people to use the appeals process then you might want to ensure you take the time to read the appeal and respond!

I think its fair to say at some point we have to trust the instinct and judgement of the lindens in these forums. Even when we disagree with the outcome.

Cat

Cat I agree. However if the Lidens do not take the time to respond then what is the reason for having an appeal process?

I think it more accurate to say we really don't have any choice in the matter. And, as Darko noted, you can't publically appeal nor do non-public appeals even generate responses.

I'm sorry Darko I'm not in a position where I can give you an answer to that.

Cat

Agreed

Cat no worries the question was more rhetorical I think.

Concerning forum moderation...

a benchmark I have long found handy is observing the moderation at the giant TrekBBS.com -- for two simple reasons (and quite possibly more):


-a dedicated forum for Moderator Actions:

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB30

-the fact that these are Trekkies we're dealing with -- think about all those flamewars!


Check them out to see how they do it.

Seriously. I have been a regular on many forums over the years, and the previous example is one of the best I've ever seen on the Net. And while I am here, I put my trust in the Lindens, as this is their forum. However, there is this curious interplay between the community and LL... not imcomprehensible, given a type of symbiotic relationship we have.

Do we deserve replies when it comes to appealing and such? I'm not sure "deserve" is the right word, but communication is key to long and healthy relationships, and when things can be explained, it helps relationships to grow and become stronger over time.

I admittedly have had the frustrating experience of sending in several bug reports inworld, and not to have them addressed... while posting my qualms on the forums were quickly noticed by Lindens (Haney being so quick to scope out one of mine the other). So the forums definitely do have a place.

Interactivity, interoperability, etc... I'm optimistic.

So if you make an appeal the proper way by emailing LL, and they don't respond, and you are suspended....I guess that would leave you with..umm..no options?

Not a comfortable thought. But I guess we don't have to pay money and be part of Second Life, so the final choice in actions would still be in our hands.

nonsense. to question is human nature.
quiet submission to apparently caprcious action is not really in human nature.

I thought I'd bring this up and see whether it sheds any light on the situation.

We had fairly good abuse-handling on the game I used to play on, although granted we were much smaller, maybe 500 players and a few thousand characters. And only a few serious griefers a month between a staff of a dozen or so players (not counting the "wizards" who had final say on everything) to deal with them.

After a certian point during my term as a staffer there, we had to establish a rule that staff members couldn't discuss suspentions and bannings with players who asked us about players who had been suspended/banned. Persisting to bug us could result in a suspention for that person, although that rarely happened. This was because we would constantly be bugged with people asking why so-and-so got kicked off the game. In this respect, the Lindens are so-far par for the course.

On the other hand, I think our system was much more transparent. Discussion of someone's banishment on the forums (often started by the soon-to-be banished player) (or even certian particuarly sensational cases before we had player forums), the game admins could post logs of the player's misdeeds. Players could discuss things among themselves all they wanted (within G guidelines at least). I don't think we've ever had inconsistancy problems (so long as a player reported the problem to us so we *could* do something about it), favoritism (being caught playing favorites or otherwise abusing your power could cost you your job and get *you* banished if the offence was serious enough) or anything like that. Our rules were fairly clear.

The game has been around for more than 7 years now if that's any indicator...many games of its type don't last long at all as anyone could get the MU code and run a server.

I can't say this for certian without knowing what the Lindens go through firsthand, but I think a lot of the problems the lindens have could be eased simply by getting more people to handle the griefers. Put in perspective: there are 100 Lindens listed under Find, and only a small fraction of those actauly have anything to do with handling griefers and abuse reports. SL has more than 10,000 people on it, with abuse reports comming in every day.

Am I understanding this right? If we get suspended, and then complain about it in the forums the thread will be locked? Is it just me, or does this sound a little fascist?

Ya man not to mention the fact that there is no working appeal system in place. It sucks.

where did you read that?

Very impressive post, Talen, I completely agree.

A discussion of banning is a discussion of the bounds of behaviour and it seems like a very worthwhile topic.

Perhaps increasingly authoritarianism is how they are going to encourage player governments.