Upset or Quitting? Read This

The new 1.2 system is one possible solution to a lot of different issues many people have had and are having with Second Life. Prim hogging will be a thing of the past. Taxes? What taxes? I have to applaud Linden Labs for their proactive response to the community.

They're proposing a radical solution to try and make SL a better game in the process. Isn't that what we all want?

I simply ask that you reserve your judgement until you see and experience the system actually working. Things on paper are usually a bit different than in practice. That - and I'm sure Linden Labs has a few more surprises for us in 1.2. ^_^

Maybe this new system will work... and maybe it won't. But I assure you that Linden Labs won't rest until they've got a good system on their hands. Heck, their company depends on it. If this system doesn't work, they'll go to another - just like they are doing now. Nothing is set in stone.

I, for one, am addicted no matter what, so I have no choice but to stay. ^_^

I find the one-time...

Wait, you gotta undersand, yes, I am saying one-time as in you pay it once and then never again...

ONE-TIME subscription fee of $9.95 for people who are not interested in owning land... could be a huge boon. I know someone who tried SL and liked it somewhat, but didn't like the idea of $15 a month. I bet he'd consider coming back if he knew he was only going to pay $9.95 once and then never again.

Of course, some people will buy the $9.95 account and then upgrade. This provides a shallower gradient for people to travel - to see how much they really like it before committing.

In my experience across several MMORPGs, I've noticed that recurring subscription fees is what keeps most of the mainstream away from MMO Games/Environments.

When I tell friends about the places I go online, most people sound fascinated until I mention the monthly recurring fee, and then they instantly turn off to the whole idea.

People don't want another monthly bill in addition to their phone, cable, internet provider, utilities, etc.

I think this can potentially be an enormous boost to the SL population.

Just earlier today I wrote a goodbye reply to someone who I'm going to miss in-game because he had other financial priorities. Hopefully he (and his cool scripting skills, which require no land) will return with the minimum one-time payment plan.

I've only been playing two months, but I suspect the 9.95$ one-time fee will bring back two friends that came and went during my time on SL. One doesn't have a lot of money to throw around, one doesn't like commitment.

Without a scaled subscription system, it just wouldn't be possible to create such a cheap 'lifetime' style subscription. They'll probably upgrade to a full subscription before long, but they'll have a much longer period to get addicted. =)

Anything that keeps Linden in the black and the server grid up, makes sense to me.

I think the problem most people have is the misconception of money flow.

Here's the revenue stream:

Monthly Subscription ----> Linden

Wait, you want more than the default? Okay, but that is your choice, and you have to pay for the resources to support your request:

Extra Land - Default plot ----> Difference to Linden

Okay, you really want to get that huge mile-high-billboard of pr0n and the spiral staircase to 500m. No problem, that is a lot of primitives though:

Buying more prim rights = Extra Land ----> Linden

So, you have all this land and primitives to use, and you make something that doesn't resemble a temple of plywood. By golly, people like it!! You've provided a valuable service to Linden by giving people something worth subscribing for, and you didn't even use the default plywood texture. This must be rewarded:

Creativity bonus from Linden ------> Subscriber

As far as exchanging L$ outright for currency....eh....the way I read it is that you don't pump money into the system for outright Lindenbucks, you pay more if you are a greedy bugger for land and/or just need all those prims for your 500 object-salad-fork on your 1000 object antique table. The key point is, the overage is on YOU, which is only fair really.

So, standard fees apply until you want to make something resource intensive (impacting the Linden bottom line).

RL Currency ----> Subscription Fees, Overage on standard plot of land. (Controlled by YOU.) ----> Linden

The cool thing is if you make something that is a benefit to the world (it attracts people, is creative, innovative, etc..) then you get compensated. This is a very heady idea.

I don't see any outright exchange of L$ into hard currency. If anything it is more like the hard currency being exchanged for resources to build something that may pay you a real world amount. (MAY is the operative word, there aren't any currency exchanges being planned in-world.) So, there really isn't a liquid market for passing it back and forth. I think this is the part that most people are mistaking for a 'There'-ism economy.

For the people talking about litigation, etc....sad state of affairs, really -- there is a TOS you agreed to, and it is essentially a subscription service, much like a ISP provider. You don't go suing your provider if they change their payment structure or policy, you just decide if it is best for you or not.

All the people yesterday talking about lawyers, etc...you sadden me. If you leave, I won't be urging you to go, but then again if you can't wrap your head around this, then maybe it is for the best.

As others have mentioned, this isn't the final iteration of the in-world economy, but it does take care of a lot of the 'tragedy of the commons' behavior we've seen flamed on these boards lately.

Yay, people are finally seeing the positive sides here. The one time fee is an awesome way to hook people who've never played a monthly-fee game in their lives. Before they know it they'll fall into the same trap we are in...muahahaha.. now, time to convince some people to try this game...

(Which brings up another question--how does the referral program work now? If someone pays their 1 time fee do you still get a L$ reward? Do they have to subscribe before you get a L$ reward?)

"All the people yesterday talking about lawyers" -- huh? Last time I checked a TOS for a game like this it had stuff like "reserve the right to terminate service for no reason, etc". Based on that I think we pretty much have to take the service "as is", no lawyers involved.

Anyway...what would that accomplish even if it was possible? Put LL further into the red, screwing over every other player for your own personal gain? How selfish...

What the hell was the benefit of me buying a Lifetime Membership if people just have to pay $10.00 now!!! I am so, so mad!

[Edit: Now that I understand what's going to happen to Lifetime Members, I'm not near as upset, just anxious to see what will happen because of this. ]

Daemioth... those that have a current lifetime membership are going to recieve 1 acre (1/16th) of a sim for free (as well as all the prims that allocates them) for life.

The 10.00 flat fee rate will be for new people coming but they will get NO land with that fee. If they want land, then they have to pay according to the land purchasing scales.

Quote from the email:



Quote from the website
http://secondlife.com/support/faq-v1_2.php

I think the problem with the Linden post about lifers getting 1/16th -- "a $25 value" is a little misrepresentitive. It's a $25 MONTHLY value. That's a $300 a YEAR value. Us lifers surely didn't pay that much and look at what we're getting! A ton of land that has a huge real dollar value (over time), FREE.

Of course I'm assuming that us Lifers do get the 1/16th plot of land forever, and for forever free.

And if my assumption is correct, us Lifers are getting a sweet deal.

Bos

Yes Boso I concur, sweet indeed. Lyn and I have been taking a rather long break in hopes for a drastic change to SL. This has definatly gotten my attn.

As far as Lawyers etc....ITS NOT THE 80's get over it. Man people are still in the "I'm gonna sue you, cuz I want more" attitude.

Get over it, don't play if it bothers ya that much. It's a game.

Do you sue your local gas company everytime the gas prices change, do you sue you cable tv provider when they hike the rates, do you sue your local utility company when the economy and weather combine together in a conspiracy to rid you of $ and force the util companies to raise rates?


See the point here? Its a game. You are not entitled to play it for free. LL is a REAL compny, trying to provide a recreational service, and trying to survive in this harsh RL economy.

Anyway, I like it, some don't. Not everyone will see eye to eye on every occasion. So Flame away

The people who pay a onetime fee won't own land or build and will get only a minimal stipend. They will only be able to rez a few attachments or a vehicle. This is a great thing if you just like to hang out at welcome and go to events but it doesn't take away from anyone else, since the one-timers arent getting anything they aren't paying for - and they or their friends just might upgrade to a full subscription when they see how great SL is.

Okay, I've been bought--I've no reason whatsoever to be upset with this upgrade. And looking at how things will work, while I can't say RL$ purchasing land in SL is representative of the initial nature of SL, I think that it is a fair compramise and furthermore I can see how it makes sense. I'm really just wondering what the value of my SL$ is, at this point.

For one thing, the lifetimers might have the privelege of owning their sixteenth, but they will still have to come up with the 13,000 odd Lindens to claim it. I could be Joe Billionaire and buy up the right to own a whole sim, but coming up with the honkin number of Lindens to claim a sim is going to take time and skill. You just can't go to a website and buy that many Lindendollars with you real life cash; not a tenth of it, I bet.

Are you certain that is how it will work David? Or are you just taking an educated guess? Either way I'm fine with the idea, but I think the way you present it makes it even more understandable.

Which means that gameplay for lifers hasn't changed one bit, except that now you're not paying taxes!

Lifers (except for those already over the 1/16th) can still do the same activities and events they were currently doing in order to earn L$ and claim land when and where they please as long as they don't end up with over a sixteenth of a sim total.

This doesn't change anything about the difficulty of obtaining a given amount of land (except, again for the absence of taxes), it just changes how much land you have the "right" to own.

Well, you can buy lidens$ on ebay for dollars.


In fact, [LIGHTBULB ABOVE BIT'S HEAD]

You could pay for the entirety of your subscription fees out of your L$ sales!!!!


You think you deserve the right to pay little or nothing for the 4 sims you own?

Either make lots of $$, or make lots of L$, and sell 'em on ebay.

Linden's in game have verified that they have NO problem with ebay sales, in fact they think its cool.


Not every laissez-faire economic system is bad, folks. With virtually unlimited resources, libertarian economic systems are ideal

Except if you have absolutely no way to compete with others for new land since you don't have a deep RL bank account. Then you;re SOL

Not necessarily Jellin. People always forget about the fact that the Lindens will pay RL money for creative builds, and if you make enough money from your creative builds, you may be able to make enough money to offset the count for extra land you may purchase. If you pay the current monthly fee, you can have 1/32 of a sim, that's 15 dollars a month, which is the basic subscription fee now. Keep in mind, that land is tax free as far as Lindenbucks goes. You just have to pay the 15 dollars a month to upkeep that land. Now, you build this great build there, and everyone really likes it, so the Lindens pay you money. Boom, right there, extra pocket money for you. Depending on the amount they give you, you may be able to upgrade your account, get more land, and build more great stuff. You can continue like this infinatly.

Sure, people with deep pockets may be able to afford more right now, but as I've always said, Money can't buy creativity. Those people who buy up a lot of land may not be able to do anything with it. I seriously doubt we'll see anyone who buys up whole sims with RL money, it's not practical. Unless it's a group build, then we may end up seeing that, but generally, if it's a group build then it will be a nice build in the first place. Creativity and being nice are the two ways you get ahead in SL, not money. Land owning does not give you power, it simply means now that your telling everyone your rich, unless you earn that land slowly by working your way up the ladder of the system.

Thanks everybody! I think you've got it!

A couple of things...

- if you have friends who cancelled, tell them to come on back! Their previous payment will cover their one time fee, so they can come back anytime. They will be able to get their name back, and if it's less than 60 days since they left their av and inventory will be intact. Please ask them to email [email]support@lindenlab.com[/email] for help.

- Boso -- you're right. It's a $25 per month value, so hopefully the lifers will feel they're getting a good deal. Certainly that's our intent.

Problem there for me, and I'm sure others: I'm not one of those 'creative' types. I can build a box. A big box. Drop by the club sometime, thats all it is, a box with stuff inside. I'm also not a scripter, haven't a clue about scripts.

I'll never see a dime of that money, so why should I care about it? It's a moot point for me.

I'm one of the people who most likely are going to be squeezed out between those 'creative' types and those that have the RL capital to have what they want. Why I'd -love- to be able to spend 50 a month to have a decent chunk of land with a prim count large enough to have a nice place.

Not gonna happen though. I think if I stay in-game, all I can have is a big empty box instead of a box with stuff.

I never had a problem competing over resources with the creative ones. They desearve what they got. They worked hard for it. But now I'll have to compete against the RL well-to-do as well. I will -never- be able to buy land in a new sim because I won't have the RL money. And please, don't bring up that it can be bought with either $L or RL$. It'll be the RL$ that talks and $L walks. Not that I have enough $L to compete in land auctions anyway!

Am I the only one who thinks that sooner or later, sooner probably, people will buy up all availible land for sale with RL$?

Wow, what fun!

Its crazy to just quit something after just reading about it. Its good to try it out for a month or 2 before making any decisions. Most game companies probably would never make such drastic changes to their products. LL should be applauded for taking such a step.

Not crazy to me. I run an M rated business. I own 800sq meters. For that it seems I can hace 122 whole prims! Woot!

So, unless I buy up 3 times the land I have now, I'll have to have an empty box on my property.

Neither option is something I want. Even if I -did- want to buy 3 times the land (btw, my box is furnished with pictures on the walss, a few plants, and a couple couches. Not really wasting prims here) I can't buy it! I can't afford it in $L and I sure as hell will not spend RL$ on virtual land.

An empty box. That's what I can have. wow

That 122 prims for 800 square meters is only for sims where all the land is player-owned. If you can get land in a sim with a lot of Linden-owned empty space, you might be able to support your entire building on your 1024 square meter allowance.

Remember that the 'prims per square meter' density value could one day increase, as technology (havok 2?) and other things are improved...