Alex Jones Infowars

http://www.infowars.com/

OK, I've heard lots of the conspiracy theories regarding 9/11, and frankly, I thought most of them were half-baked ramblings of the borderline insane. However, I just happened upon a cable documentary by Alex Jones that, if true, makes me question just about everything the US government has said or done over the past 4 1/2 years.

Has anyone else been exposed to this documentary, and if so, what is your take?

i've poked around on there some. he's got all kinds of illuminati and freemasons stuff and alot of "analysis" of really bad quality video by non experts. looks like typical conspiracy stuff really.

not that it's not interesting as all get out hehe.

Yeah, I noticed that. But, check this out:

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.htm

To be honest, I haven't heard a lot of this stuff, before. I am really wanting some validation of this stuff.

completely the best line from the transcript.......


i love this conspiracy shit but when it comes down to it there's no way i can take it seriously. it's like one guy says "here's claim A" and i don't have anything like the background or knowledge to know if that's true or not and then conspiracy guy pops up and says "no that's a lie because of claim B" which i don't have anything like the background or knowledge to know it it's true or not. alot of it's just plain word against word.

speaking of......they always come down to "the government is a bunch of liars and they have no credibility left" but then you find out the government supposedly has no credibility left because the conspiracy guys accused them of lying.

not that it has anything to do with whether things are true or not but it's hard to take any conspiracy seriously too when they have links to every other conspiracy out there. Kennedy, illuminati, masons, skull & bones, Schwarzenegger's a nazi, bohemian grove concrete owl worshippers, election conspiracy, survivalism, food supplies for your bunker and such. according to these guys it can't get any worse until the reptilians pull their faces off and declare us food.

Hehe, I was howling at that very same quote. Neehai would get a kick out of it, too.

All that said, what about all of the data Jones presents that seems to indicate that the WTC building collapses seem to match clear patterns of planned demolition -- that alongside analyses of other high rise buildings that endured much more significant fire damage but did not collapse (including a high-rise in Madrid, last year). In addition, Jones cites a number of seemingly credible governmental, civil service and/or media sources that reference what appear to have been a series of bomb blasts just before the towers fell. And, that whole building 7 thing really seems suspect to me. It apparently headquartered a number of federal and state agencies, including the CIA and NYC's emergency command center, but it was located further away from the epicenter than other buildings that still stand, today.

I dunno, I don't wanna end up old, gray and lonely muttering on about some dead-end conspiracy theory(ies). As I indicated, this was my first exposure to Alex Jones (and he's even based out of my home town!). But, some of what I watched on this documentary really shook me up. It was also distrubing to see all of the documented evidence that a half-dozen or more countries forewarned the US about the impending attack. From a purely hypothetical point of view, Jones' assertions that this was all planned to get the American people to buy into a global land grab and/or the subjugation of our freedoms seems at least plausible from a sociological perspective.

The whole problem with conspiracy theories is that they're conspiracy theories. That is to say that if you wish to discredit someone who doesn't agree with the mainstream consensus about, or the official version of an incident, labeling them a conspiracy theorist is often sufficient to invalidate their veiws enough that most people won't bother to examine their arguements.

It's true that the whole 911 thing has spawned an incredible amount of theories, some of which do seem to involve lizards from outer space, but it is also true that their were an incredible number of unexplained coincidences that allowed it to happen. The mainstream media and the American government did not address such things as why the air force took so long to respond or the rise in put options on certain airlines and those who wished for an explanation had no choice but to reasearch the matter for themselves or turn to the writings of those who had already done so. The competence, credulity and sincerity of such researchers may of course be called into question but when the questions of how and why are drowned out by the beating of war drums there is little else one can do.

For an amusing parody of 'conspiracy theory debunking' check the link.

http://www.911-strike.com/debunking.htm

i'm reading an old book right now about how the earth is really hollow and there are giant holes at each end and a sun in the center and none of the explorers who claimed they made it to the north and south pole really did. it's real interesting and the author has hundreds of arguments to support his case and they all add up to extremely convincing stuff. especially since i don't have the back ground in astronomy and navigation and geology and paleontology to be able to refute it. only problem is i've seen sattelite photos of the poles and they're solid. shoot. at least it's still interesting.

i guess it's kinda the same way with this modern conspiracy stuff for me. that part about demolitions on the buildings was interesting and even kinda scary but i don't know enough about how giant buildings act when they're on fire and collapsing to know if that was something unusual or just parts of the structure buckling as things gave way inside. it might be closed minded but when it could be a government conspiracy to enslave us and blow up our own buildings or it could be they collapsed from terrorists ramming them with air liners i lean in the non conspiracy direction hehe. just seems simpler and outside of movies the conspiracies always come out in the end anyways when the government covers them up. Watergate and Lewinskygate come to mind. if you can't cover up a little break in or a blow job how can you cover up a massive attack on your own country involving thousands of conspirators?

i don't doubt this guy and his people have alot of convincing testimonies and people commenting on the videos and all. the hollow earth guys have alot of convincing people too. i can't tell if they honestly believe it or if they're fat liars or if they have some hidden agenda or all three tho. but i know just cause people believe something doesn't really give it any weight. people believe alot of goofy shit.

there's definitely alot about how we maybe had warning ahead of time. i kinda think as many intelligence people as we have all over the world plus all the foreign agencies that work with us you could probly pick any given month and have the same amount of warnings coming in. the thing alot of those conspiracies don't look at is all the warnings that came and then nothing happend. it's like the psychics who get on tv when they predict something that comes true but you never hear about all the times they're humiliatingly wrong.

i guess i'm saying maybe there is a giant centuries old conspiracy to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!! but it doesn't seem likely. i'll keep enjoying the conspiracies theories as fiction. at least until they put me in the mind control camps at area 51 and take away my gun and give me the mark of the beast. yeah who's laughing now smart ass? that's what i thought.........

Cool link, Akuma. I've only read about half-way through it, but the irony is delicious.

Anyway, you hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. The strawman and ad hominem fallacies of logic seem to be running rampant, these days. However, the so-called "alternative media" doesn't yet warrant the same level of credibility as does the mainstream press, so I am reticent to take alt media at face value. What's a modern-day peasant to do? We need a modern-day Martin Luther, me thinks. Though, along the lines of what Zuzi said, I wonder if it would really help to have the raw truth laid out before us.

Huh. Wow. I mean, I saw the conspiracy theory stuff about the Pentagon, and that was way more convincing - even that had some pretty logical responses to it.

But this... you have 10 million witnesses see two planes full of jet fuel hit the tower. Structural engineering have testified that the temperatures from the burning fuel of such quantity for nearly an hour would have been sufficient to do this, and the tower was designed to vertically collapse rather than topple over. I see no reason to doubt engineers, whose empirical evidence is out there for anyone to challenge, rather than some conspiracy theorists using heaps of logical fallacies and offer no response to counter-arguments.

But the overall question I have is... can we leave this topic alone, already? I was there, and the way we coldly treat this issue is absolutely chilling to me.

Well, I'm not going to stop asking questions just because it may make some people uncomfortable. I don't think anyone here is making light of the magnitude of loss. Maybe we have talked this topic to death, but my intent in posting was to learn more so that my uninformed opinions might be expanded beyond a regurgitation of Peter Jennings and the Times.

I don't deny that Jones' Michael Moore style of documentary is of disputable integrity. However, in this documentary, Jones played excerpts from FDNY radio communications during the tragedy. At one point, before the collapse, the radio transcript seem to indicate that the jet-fueled fires had (allegedly) all but burned themselves out, and further, there was video footage showing a number of people standing in a gaping hole (point of entry) waiting to be rescued. The implication there was that, if the fire was hot enough to melt steel, surely those people wouldn't have been able to withstand that kind of heat. And there were a number of other contentions and coincidences that I had not previously heard about -- including engineers who dispute the engineering testimony to which Hiro refers. So if I'm wrong for wanting to gain a better understanding, so be it.

From my perspective, if there really is a "conspiracy" going on, it logically calls into question the fidelity of a number of Western governments and, if nothing else, the general news media. Maybe I'd be happier just sticking my head in the sand pretending that all is well in Telly Tubby Land.

Aye. True enough.


Since there was no one reporting information from the inside the building, I find it hard o accept anyone's guess as fact.


It seems like a logical assumption, until you consider how big the footprint of the Twin Towers was. These are very wide buildings, and its entirely probably that the wind at 1400 feet kept the flames / heat near the outside of the building much cooler than the flames in the interior. From the floorplans I've seen, the internal beams are located near the center of the building as well as the ouside. - It's those internal beams that supposedly failed.


No, true enough. Also understand that these engineers are in minority. Realize that Bush also had one or two engineers who said the aluminum tubes Iraq bought were for nuclear centerfuge, even though 14 or 15 top nuclear scientists said that they were of the wrong grade and dimensions. That evidence, of course, was the main evidence Colin Powell presented to the UN as proof of Iraq having WMDs...

It brings up an interesting issue. Scientists and Engineers, as I see it, generally have high ethical standards - the scientific method that they have studied so long demands it. There seems to be a whole lot less spin and speculation, but, of course, sometimes they can be wrong; I suppose that needs to be granted.


Hahahah...

I think this is a hard conspiracy to sell, really. The amount of cooperation it'd require is tremendous. Simply keeping it a secret would have been impossible, given how even small conspiracies where a small number of people were involved had problems keep secret. (Enron, Watergate, Whitewater, etc etc)

It speaks to a psychological / sociological issue. This is, namely, that traumatic events are so difficult to believe in, that people have a difficult time even getting past the stages of acceptance... disbelief, anger, etc etc. What I take out of this whole conspiracy stuff is just how fragile we humans are that these kinds of things can be convincing.