Altered Realities in SL

After having a serious discussion with a Resident of SL whose name i'm not going to disclose, I began thinking about this HUGE social experiment (or, what I believe is a social experiment, haven't gotten a straight answer about it) that Linden Labs is running in the form of a game. How close do you let your SL get to you FL. This has probably been discussed before, but these types of things always change, and it's always nice to have another debate.

But, back on topic, the resident i was talking to was having major problems with another resident. It seems as though the resident who is the cause of the problem seems to have lost their sense of FL reality vs. SL reality. I'm afraid that for this resident, SL may become their main reality, and this could cause huge catastrophic problems. The residents who is having problems is unable to let it go, and i'm afraid it may be part of the reason this residents FL isn't going so well. Stress in any type, whether it's in an alternate reality or not, can affect your body in many different ways, Sickness, injury, depression, all these things can be attributed, in some way or another, to stress. So the main question is is whether living in this SL is really worth sacraficing your health in your FL. Should we let this alternate reality dictate how our FL is run, and how serious should we take the person sitting, starting at their computer monitor much like you are right now.

This brings up lots of serious questions, such as should we let our SL run our FL, and if it gets to the point where the SL has affected the FL in an extremely Negative way, and it shows, should LL step in and stop it before it gets out of hand?

It's pretty late, and i'm tired, i can tell because i'm Philosophizing too much.

I hear what you are saying. I also have a few problems With Sl, But unlike the person you talked to. If my problems don't go away Ill just uninstall this Puppy from my hard drive , cancel my subscription and be gone. I have and am trying to resolve my issues in private with Lindenlabs. In fact, Progress has been made with my issues .

However when I saw the message about a large event crashed by a griefer I do begin to wonder about alot of things. There is no amount of aggrivation worth it . And since I ran my own bbs in the early 80's (I even wrote the software) I always tossed off troublemakers. It seems to me that troublemakers know exactly how much grief they can inflict and they are gonna do that as long as they can .

I disagree with Linden labs on abuse . There is a person behind every avitar and abuse against an avitar to be repeated again and again to make their life miserable deserves being shown the door .

Disclaimer:
This message is not accusing anyone of abuse and is not being directed at any specific person. If a person feels this message is directed at them then they probably have a guilty conceious. Please dont respond to this post and bash either me or my avitar. Its ok if you disagree just dont bash !

One of the primary goals of adult life is learning to delay satisfaction in order to handle boring (but necessary) tasks. You let these tasks stack up long enough, you'll run into trouble.

There is a point at which you cease to use the computer, and the computer commences with the businesses of using you. If that is what has happened to you, it is time to walk away. The outside universe still exists, and it is fiercely unforgiving of people who try to ignore it.

A very interesting topic, Brad. I hope this gets alot of replies.

The addictive nature of SL is something I have at the back of my mind every time I log in. I also have alot of problems in my FL, and I acknowledge my need for escapism. However, I am proud to say I do not let SL intrude *too* much into my FL.
Yeah, I get to bed far too late a couple of nights a week, but to be honest, if it wasnt SL keeping me up, it would be something else. I havent had a solid sleep pattern since my early teens (man thats a long time ago lol).
As I say, I recognise my need to escape FL at the end of the day, when all the chores are done, and I have free time.
If I have some freelance work to do or am doing something social with my RL friends, second life comes second (lol).

However, I also admit freely that I am terribly adicted to SL. Terribly addicted. But it's all about balance. If I feel the balance tilting too far in SL's favour, I take break for a couple of days. That gets me out in the real world enough to regain the balance. Well, it works for me.

I've been in SL for four months, and I've met so many great people, and thats a big part of the addiction for me. Never have I met so many genuinely cool people in an online environment! (Luckily I suffer little in the way of griefers).

I only hope that the person you are concerned about, Brad, can achive some balance in his approach to SL. Maybe some of us should write an article for the secondlifefanclub.com about how to balance out the two lives!

[edit] Well said, HV!

I don't think LL needs to step in to handle anything like this. It is not their responsibility. If someone can't handle RL and stays in SL all the time, it is their own responsibility. That's one reason why you should be an adult to play - adults are supposed to take responsibility for themselves.

I don't want to be on SL for a long time (say I'm on vacation and have nothing I want to do but play SL), and have LL step in and say "You've been on too long, you need help, get off" and disconnect me. They are just providing the service, I'm the one using it.

This is a bit of a chicken and egg question. While any MMOG can have a highly addictive quality to it and can get in the way of a healthy FL if people let it, it's not the result of some magical influence that SL has over anyone. Those people (I'm borderline) have a predisposition for escapism.

Just as with alchohol or any addictive substance (not that SL is addictive in the same way) there are going to be those that are not capable of using it responsibly and it will negatively impact their life. SL is the same way. The problem isn't SL's... it's the person who can't use it responsibly who's responsible for the detriment it can cause.



I'll get right on those tasks after just a little more SL. I promise.

All very good points everyone. This was the type of disscussion that i was hoping to start through this thread.

As far as LL stepping in, i was merely trying to start this disscussion in by throwing in something that "could" turn into a flame war, the subject or Morality. Is it moral to know something is wrong with someone, and let them continue, just because it is a service. I have been struggling with this issue, with my boss, for a long time. Where I work, we run Go-karts....outdoors.... and now it is cold. We generally shut down the go-karts when it drops below 45 degrees, but now he is trying to change that to drop it below. Much like LL and SL, should a buisnees, such as the one I work at, or....hehe, the one i live a second life in...take it upon themselves to keep someone who may not be able to take control of themselves, or someone who's not thinking straight (why would anyone want to drive a go-kart that goes about 15 mph, in 30 degree weather?) and say, "no, you can not, or should not do this."

I personally think that it should happen. This does lead to the chance that someone at LL (not saying it would, but there is always a chance), would abuse this power, and say that this person can't play because it's becoming a danger in their FL, or they can't handle playing SL, they need to get their FL in order. I think too many people today worry too much about being PC, or making money, that Morality has left a lot of us. Ethical actions are no longer on the fore front of a lot of our minds, only serving the customer who will hand you money. Now, i may get flamed for this, but I am under the belief that people...as a whole, are stupid.

Now, i'm not saying each and every single person is stupid, but, as a whole, people are stupid. There will always be that one person who wants to do something stupid, and much like sheep, if people see one person doing something, they are going to follow suit. It's the way of the world we live in. People as a whole don't think all the time, in fact, some don't think at all. And there's where I believe that buisnesses should step in and be Morally right. Sometimes it gets to the point where the person can no longer control themselves, and it is at this point where buinesses need to be morally right and not let that person continue to use their service. Someone has to take responsibility, otherwise, we will turn into a society where everyone turns their back on everything, and it's the opening steps into turning into an anarchy. Not saying it's going to happen, but it could.

It's an interesting argument, but it's like saying a store that sells alcohol Is responsable for the alcoholic.

If you follow this logic to it's end MMOG's should just be banned outright because a few people are unable to handle them.

In the end people need to be responsable for their own actions. Society can't controll everything that may be a problem. If it did we'd live in a very restrictive world where ordinary people would not be allowed to do things simply because someone else may not be able to controll themselves.

Also if someone has a leaning to self distructive behavior there is very little you can do to stop it. If you cut them off of one thing they will simply find something else to take it's place.

Only they can change their behavoir and if they are unwilling to do that there's not much anyone else can do for them.

SL is doing fine here. If you want to feel griefers go play ultima online on a russian server. PLay long until you get a lot of money and such... then one time you feel bold or you're just stupid and forget to put your gold in the bank.
Then you are fighting at a graveyard and some asshole comes... you see the freezing spell above his head.... but you're too late to run away.. you try to find the magic spell to unfreeze you, but you forgot to put a shortcut on it... and then it's too late he kills you in one blow and takes your most valuable things you posses and he runs off before you can check his name....
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
damn that really hurt me!!! it's just fake gold and stuff, but I did spent a few hours to gather it!!!! I closed the game imediatly because I thought it affected me too much! On the one hand it's good to feel some 'real' emotions in a game (that means it's a good game that you get addicted too) but on the other hand, I felt REALLY bad and stupid because I forgot to do all those things I should have done and some a**hole killed me whithout saying a word or having a reason...
I'm gonna play again next week I think... I'm too frustrated now, which could make me try kill other players and do the same to them
In comparison to those type of game you gotta love the people in SL.. also in UO most people don't even talk... only to say F*CK off or something like that. damn I hate those russian bastards (no offense to any non-uo-playing russians )

I used to play UO so long ago...back in the day when people actually played and didn't just run around and macroed.

Actually I was lucky enough to be involved in a group of people that started up the first Player City called "Oasis" and eventually took over as Mayor of Oasis when all the original founders had left for greener pastures.

I will tell you, I experienced real emotions playing UO, whether from griefers or from people that I had become friends with. UO did become a part of my existence, but in no way did I play UO as my first life. Games like UO at that time were an experiment, as much as Second Life is now, and that's what draws me to it. I enjoy the social aspects, yet at the same time, the ability to accomplish goals. When UO began to become more of a "let's see who can win this game" type of environment, it lost its lustre for me; so I left.

By the way, for those that care for a bit of trivia, the word "griefer" was actually coined by those of us in Oasis. When we first started having trouble with troublemakers in Oasis, we needed a name to call them so it would be easy to identify them to GM's and such. Therefore the term "griefer" was born out of necessity. I can actually remember the debates on the UO boards when that word would be used, the english police would arrive and say, "that isn't a real word!" Apparently it's become one now

Okay, this is actually at the very heart of what I do for a living - civil rights advocacy. No, Linden Labs doesn't have an obligation to try to evaluate their users mental or emotional well-being. In fact, I would see it as a gross violation of my privacy if I felt that anyone from whom I purchased a service such as SL was continuing to watch me and determine my rights to usage "for my own good". <shiver>

I'm a tad on the zaftig side - I don't want restaurants refusing to serve me anything but low-calorie meals. It's all the same thing.

What LL can and should do is enforce the TOS and remove users whose behavior shows they are unable to follow the behavioral requirements of the game. It is more than reasonable to for LL to remove users for WHAT THEY HAVE DONE, but it is neither appropriate nor reasonable for them to remove users based on their own concept of HOW THAT PERSON FEELS.

Bhodi

People have mentioned in the forums before about the 'mute' feature being beefed up. If you could ignore a users in a way that you never see their AV, their chat, IM's build's scripts AND VICE VERSA.. that would take the wind out of the sails of greifers faster than getting a Linden... Lindens can check the logs so just complain, if your complaint is sound, Lindens are more than happy to take action. That's my experience anyways.

Amen to that. That kind of suggestion would result in a slippery slope -- if LL started doing that, where would they stop?

I'm a firm believer in living and letting live, as long as other folks' right to swing their fist ends before it connects with me.

I have always had an ironclad policy of keeping my online persona and my offline seperated completely since i first started getting involved with internet communities (games mostly) in 1996. I never mix the two.

I have always done this because (1)It keeps the potental for unpleasant drama involving me to a minimum and (2) It gives me a frame of reference that keeps me in check with RL. Conciously keeping aspects of my FL out of SL (and any other online game) constantly reminds me of exactly where I am and what I am doing. This is a good thing, considering that I have a tendancy to get drawn into worlds like these (can anyone say obsessive-compulsive?). It's a mental failsafe so to speak - one which over the years has served me well - I have rarely been involved in much negative drama and although I sometimes play burst for irresponsible amounts of time, RL eventually pulls me back and forces me to deal with it.

With Regards,
Antagonistic Protagonist

i don't really see SL as needing seperation from FL. for me SL isn't a whole other world i enter and leave my FL behind. it's just an extension of FL, another "place". logging in is like going to the park to be with friends. i don't keep my "at the park" persona seperate from my "at Barnes & Noble" persona or my "at home" persona. there's no need. i'm not going to get sucked in to the park and become addicted to the park.

Lindens are game admins. They are not employed as psycotherapists, pschologists, or any other kind of mental state judges.

Don't forget that actually working for the game as an in-world non-technician may have ramifications of its own.

They do, after all, call it "god mode".

I agree with the 'hands off' postings here. Linden is providing a service, and if the conditions in the TOS are being adhered to, then they should be completely neutral. The players can regulate themselves to a large degree, with minimal intervention needed.

If someone can't maintain their RL job, it isn't SL's fault, period. Sorry, I just believe in taking responsibility for my own actions. There are a lot of things on the net and in RL that can be blamed for a multitude of personal problems, the real basis for any complaint usually ends up with the complainant not doing anything personally to remedy it. (Yes, there are exceptions.)

I played from 9pm to 11pm on thursday. I went go to work early, a bit tired. It's my own damn fault. I still love this game.

I recently had a zen-like experience watching someone build things in the sandbox. Its little things like that (and more) that make SL more than just a 'second life' but an 'enhanced life'. I wouldn't be able to experience these things anywhere else.

LL, as said before, is not a group of psychyotrists. They are NOT employed to help you with your "issues." Now, I'm not trying to bash your Regnar, this is for everyone.

This is simply another case of fighting Darwin (no, not me...) If you get addicted, your life will fall apart. Is it really worth it? No. It's never worth it.

As far as confusing my SL with my FL, I don't have a problem. I don't have a FL to begin with.

Interesting thread, Brad, thanks for bringing this up.

I don't think we want to put the Lindens in the position of determining what's moral or protecting us from ourselves. That's the way perfectly obvious moral principles like gender equity and racial equality become obnoxious "politically correct" pronouncements, when they're imposed from without rather than nurtured from within.

I personally do not think it's possible to separate SL and RL, if you participate in this community with any level of engagement. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing can depend on what you do with your experiences here. Everywhere you go in this community you'll find people who are shy in RL but meet people easily here; who are blocked artists in RL but have no trouble building elaborate houses or art; who are confused about gender issues but can explore them in a way that's both relatively safe and psychologically realistic in SL.

To use myself as an example, I often have trouble holding on to my point of view in a confrontational situation. Recently I had such a situation in SL and was able to stay on message rather than run away and sulk, and I'm thinking that the next time this kind of thing happens to me in RL I'm going to be a little bit better at getting my point of view across.

Where the danger comes is when the shy person or the blocked artist uses their successes in this community as a low-risk substitute for the real thing. Even there who's to say it's not a cumulative thing and at some point they'll turn off their computer and walk out the door and put their new-found strenths to work in the world at large.

Even the addictive nature of the game, which so many acknowledge, is not all bad. An activity so compelling and absorbing and fun is what I call "pure play," something most adults don't seem get nearly enough of.