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You: Hi everybody
You: I don't have a set agenda -- whatever you want to talk about or ask questions about
AH: i would like to ask a question
You: if I can shed any light on things I'll try
You: Yes?
AH: some people who come to SL are already experienced in 3d building and scripting etc
AH: for a lot of us its a steep learning curve
You: I know - really steep!
TP: Thats why the Mentors exist!
You: and instructors
JF: I've been here 18 mths and still learning
AH: some don't want to learn and just have fun. Are LL happy to have both kinds of people - creators and social players?
You: definitely
You: in many ways they support each other
You: people who build need help, customers, an audience
You: the big issue I know, has been L$ and how the social players can earn them
AH: yes
You: we've tried to create an economy that allows people to earn L$ in a variety of ways -- not just through building and creation
You: playing games, basic stipends, selling services or project management, hosting parties with a cover charge, managing events, and so on
MM: or even those who try to be creative, but dont seem to sell, lol
TS: I really miss the simple games that used to be played where the hosts got LL dollars
TS: like the texturing competitions etc
ML: How can I hold a class on my land, I made a classroom, can I make it available for other instructors also?
AH: yes
TP: there's a new job service that opened recently. I have a landmark if you would like it
TS: Those made me want to learn things and formally and informally
TS: those are all gone
You: I'm really sympathetic to that. *I* don't even want the things I've made!
MM: lol
AH: i suppose there is a big wodge in the middle, I'm included, who want to be able to create but are still going through a learning process
You
f course you can. You can charge rent, or a feeAH: lol
ML: where is the best place to learn about hosting an event?
MM: collecting at an event can be a tricky endeavor
TP: whut oh.
You: is it possible to be an apprentice, to learn from a master and help them make things and share the income?
AH: would you agree that the quality of events has gone down rather than up?
TS: I have some notecards... hold on
AH: a lot of repetition
jF: i think the evnets follow trends
You: not really. There's been a shift away from grand openings and escort parties to Tringo
JF: obviously tringo is well attened
TP: Tringo does seem to be the event du jour
RZ: like Bingo was
JF: now it is over done lol
LN: we should call this Tringoland, not Second Life
AH: i enjoy a game of tringo but not all day every day
RZ: so it really isn't new or different, just the game itself
TP: I haven't tried it myself!
You: there is a lot of repetition, but I think that also has to do with people using the event calendar as an advertising venue
LN: seemed too laggy to me
You: which we're thinking about ways to discourage
You: what's really cool about Tringo is that it's a Second Life invention
LN: this is true
AH: yes
You: doesn't exist outside of SL
TP: Robin, does anyone police the events calendar? Is there a way to put limits on the number of events programatically?
You: what do you think about the best way to improve events, besides paying for them?
LN: primtionary is similar in that respect
TS: It is also very good for some of us who want to relax and yet be doing something
You: is primtionary like pictionary?
RZ: yes
LN: yeah, except with building
LN: you should try it. There's an event in an hour
RZ: it is very cool
TP: primtionary is fun
You: that sounds like fun
You: I'll have to go try it out
TP: the 10 prim or less contests are too
AH: i notice that at one time people were only allowed one event per day, now some are holding all day events at set hours
You: yes - those are frequently the ones who are using the events board for advertising
TP: or worse, having their employees host the same event at the same location, to get around that rule.
AH: yes
You: what about a system where you can give feedback points, like eBay, for great or terrible events
AH: 1 even said come to here and sort your inventory out lol
AH: good idea
You: someone seeking dwell, sounds like
ML: yea event feedback would be wonderful
LN: robin: would there be linden payments based on that, or what?
JF: good idea robin
AH: just a big desperate i thought
You: the feedback points could also be given for transactions, for forum posts, for teaching
LN: or would it be a way of sifting out "fake" advertising events?
TS: I don't really like the idea of the rating system
TP: I like a feedback system, as long as it doesn't Charge!!! to the "rating" of the event
You: it would be a better measure of reputation I think, and cut across many of the different aspects of SL
TS: If you are a new instructor, it is expected that your presentation may not be up to par
ML: events are good, maybe rating if it was a private forum for a group
You: then you could do a neutral rating
You: or none
TS: no... I dont like it
LN: so event runners would simply tell everyone to rate the event positively or they'd kick them out... ?
RZ: what about evil doers who will hurt their competition by bringing down the competitors rating?
TS: there are too many hidden ways to use
You: i don't know if it would make sense to give people money for the feedback numbers, although we could do a bonus like the rating bonus today
TS: it
BW: I don't know, I think any kind of feedback rating system is simply going to be another form of popularity contest rather than any real feedback
MM: (when conversation flow allows) ...one thing that frustrates me. there are a lot of kewl tools, but a lot of them bring a lot of lag. light objects, a lot of scripts, particles. at times it feels like a tease when trying to create
You: in theory higher ratings would also bring you more traffic, more customers, etc.
TP: if you throw out the highest and lowest rates, you end up with a median rate, like they do in say figure skating competitions
RT: Would it be possible to set up something like an event "object" that can gain or loose reputation points, that you can assign and reassign to different days and locations? Like, for instance, having a DJ session that happens every week, and retains its
RT: ratings from previous weeks
You: maybe
You: and a decay factor also, so as you improve the negative feedback goes away
AH: does LL monitor the events listing now?
TS: noooo
You: we try, but it's a lot to manage
TS: I am the voice of dissention
AH: yes i can understand that
You: the liaisons look for things like x-rated descriptions, multiple postings, ads
AH: well i think its a good idea
TS: If you just said... only 5 Tringo events today or 3 beginning building classes today
AH: why are you against it Soj?
You: TS - you think it's too easy to game?
TS: because I would be reated down...
AH why do you think that?
AH: you are a brilliant teacher - have taught me a lot
You: if there were 50 Tringo events, and all were attended by at least 5 people, then 250 people have been entertained. so who's to say it's bad to have 50 Tringo events?
TS: it is hard when you are a new instructor...you need positive reinforcement not negative ratings
AH: i can see your point of view
TS: Becasue the other things get lost in the events calendar
You: that's the big problem I think
TP: it might not be a bad idea to have more categories for events to fall into, so one could sort them easier. then who cares how many events are going on. I think the problem with the event calendar is it shows you everything at once. If it could be f...
JF: what about search filters for events
You: maybe have better categories?
TP: filtered easier it may work better
You: ahh - TP we think alike!
TP: hehe
TS: yeah... like a Tringo section with everyone listing time and place
TP: i just type books
You: that sounds like a fairly simple solution
You: i'll add that to the list
TS: And a competitions section and a build section?
TS: or only games
RZ: there is a primitive search in place now for filtering
MM: i wouldnt make it as specific as Tringo, as trends fade over time, but maybe an interactive games section
TP: Robin, I'd like to see the events calendar visible in the Welcome Area again, if only with approved content
TP: a lot of new residents have no idea what's going on
AH: yes someone has come up with a new game already
JF: this world has gotten so big,its hard to find things
RT: How about setting up a "Suggested event" category where someone brings up an idea, then people post what time they may be able to come, whether they would be able to come, etc, and then event can be created to accomodate people or something. Like an RSVP
TP: a "Games of Chance" section would incorporate anything you can win money at that has a game theme
JF: basic information
RT: list that's not actually an event yet
You: good idea TP. I don't know why it isn't there anymore, but we're about to rebuild the welcome area, so i'll see if we can get that in
TP: oh, that's wonderful to hear!
TS: I go to a lot of thngs on the spur of the moment
TP: the WA needs a facelift
TS: If you have seating... suggest that it is newbie easy
TS: (or some of us oldbies too)
TS: Circular isn't
You: I hope it will be more of a community gathering place, but for smaller groups
AH: More seating would be nice
You: agreed!
TP: I would love to see more of an Peer to Peer interactive welcome environment
RT: Oh yeah, Robin, do you by any chance know whether LL is even considering working on implementing things like joystics, or upgrading its 3D engine in any way? I've ran into some stereo bugs here
You: we're taking a new look at the rendering engine
TP: when people are born into the world after Prelude they really don't have any idea what they are doing... more instruction is almost certianly needed.
AH: mm definitely - as a fairly recent newbie myself i was lost
You: Uncle Linden is going to be holding a meeting on Friday with more of a focus on bugs
You: he's more technically inclined than I, and might be able to answer bug questions better
RT: Really? Cool. Will you be testing to make sure all objects rendered are at a correct depth? Currently attached objects (including eyeballs) are at a depth that's different from the human av, so when looking in stereo, people look like their eyeballs are
RT: a foot in front of them
AH: lol
TP: back to the event calendar idea, would it be a good idea to post a forum thread asking for new categories for the events calendar, and then a poll after that to whittle them down, and incorporate into the system?
You: I don't think we've ever looked at things in stereo. I'll suggest that
RT: thanks
You: Could be Taun. Why don't you start something on the events forum?
TP: stereo? ooh ... that's an interesting (and possibly headache inducing) idea!
TP: Will do, Robin!
You: Yeah - it sounds like what happens when you only wear one contact lens
AH: i think its a pity so few people read the forums. It can be a dog eat dog thing but i have learned a lot
You: MM - you had a question earlier about lag?
RT: I have stereo, and it works wonderfully, except for the googly eyeballs and weird attachements thing. It's great to build while seeing in stereo
JF: i do if she doesnt lol
You: Our forum readership is about on a par with what other worlds have experienced
AH: they take no prisoners lol
You: No kidding!
TP: the forums can be a scary place for new residents
AH: totally
You: What's your question Jemma?
JF: what is the biggest reason for lag?
JF: i have heard so many different opinions
You: OK - this is a long one...be patient
You: First - lag means different things to different people based on their experience
You: "The video is jerky or stuttering" -- this comes from low framerate. It means the client machine is near or below the min spec, or the preferences are set too high, or maybe they have something else running in the background. We've had people complain
You: about lag and then we discover they're trying to run SL, Photoshop and download music all at the same time
You: Second: "I can rotate but not move" - or "it takes forever to start walking".
You: This is usually a network problem (rotation is clientside, movement is serverside). Again - turn all other programs off, check for firewall or internet security products, downloads or basically anything pulling more bandwidth than IM
You: "I'm moving slowly MIGHT be the server. We can check if there's a physics problem. The liaisons or support can help with that.
You: Does that help?
JF: yes but i meant more from a building side
AH: i just crash when i am in a lag area
RZ: or putting your clothes on
JF: textures or scripts
TS: I must say that in all the time I have been here... I have never run into a liason or mentor anywhere except a scheduled events
You: Those things -- textures - rezzing new objects or clothes -- all take a lot of bandwidth as they are streamed to your machine
TS: do they only hang out in newbie places?
You: They spend a lot of time on the OIs making sure newbies aren't stuck or lost
TP: TS - I'm almost always in the Welcome Area
You: they tp to griefing problems, and the rest of the time they tend to sit and answer IMs
TS: ok
TS: just wondered
You: If you've been in Live Help you know there's a HUGE volume of IM traffic
TP: yup!
RZ: but what is nice, I always get a fairly prompt response and that is appreciated
TS: Most of the time, Live Help has been very good
AH: nods
You: That's good to hear!
KK: i've always gotten a fast response too from Live Help
You: Have any of you been in Live help?
RT: no, where's that at?
TP: raises hand
RZ: I am not a masochist
You: Tried but haven't been accepted yet?
You: haha
RZ:
You: R - you can sign up on the sl website
TP: it's a really hard job, but totally worth it
END PART I
