Second Life Forums Archive - Consistency in the spirit of SL's censorship policies?

Morse Dillon

Lifetime Member

Join date: 11 Dec 2003

Posts: 142

02-07-2005 13:16

I managed to miss most of the "Naming Names" drama the last few days, but have gone back and read most of the related threads...

I do not in any way intend for this thread to become redundant, but I would like to solicit discussion regarding LL's overarching policy of censorship in-world and on the forums. Do people generally feel that they are consistent, and if they are different what are the justifiable reasons?

Personally speaking, I would like to see a hands-off approach to the whole forum censorship thing. Flamewars have been part of online communication since the very beginning, and I'm not sure that it's in LL's best interests to spend the time and effort to (edit) every last forum post. I much prefer the in-game "abuse reporting" model, whereby it's not a problem unless someone reports it as such. We're all adults here, and it's mildly insulting to think that LL is going to "protect" me from any flames directed at me.

But who am I to Second Guess...

_____________________

King Morse Dillon
King of Second Life

Paolo Portocarrero

Puritanical Hedonist

Join date: 28 Apr 2004

Posts: 2,393

02-07-2005 13:20

I guess I would like to know what works well in other MMOs. This is the only MMO that I play, so it might be nice to hear what works (or doesn't work) with other online games.

_____________________

Facades by Paolo - Photo-Realistic Skins for Doods
> Flagship store, Santo Paolo's Lofts & Boutiques
> SLBoutique

David Valentino

Nicely Wicked

Join date: 1 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,941

02-07-2005 13:22

Ban him! ^^

I wish it was free and uncensored as well, though I would miss Jeska. We are an 18+ community, and can police ourselves pretty well, or at the very least, sit back and eat popcorn while the drama happens.

If that were ever to happen, I would still recommend a moderated "newb" forum, so folks fresh to the game can lose thier forum virginity in a gentle, loving way.

_____________________

David Lamoreaux

Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery

Moopf Murray

Moopfmerising

Join date: 7 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,448

02-07-2005 13:25

Moderating a busy forum as this will always leave you open to calls of inconsistency, but this can be mitigated a lot by having full-time, 24 hour moderators who's job it is to moderate and nothing more. Anything other than that and too much gets missed. What happens on these forums amounts to random moderation as they are not moderated with any concentrated time and effort - they seem to moderate in bursts and only then sporadically.

The thing is, the more rules you make, the more you have to moderate. LL have created many more rules but the implementation of them is lacking due to the lack of an always present moderator. They seem to want to mould the forum, but aren't willing to put the effort in to achieve their "vision". It's something I'm not sure they grasp.

If you want the rules, have moderators who are visibly here and doing their job more frequently. Otherwise, don't moderate at all.

Jeffrey Gomez

Cubed™

Join date: 11 Jun 2004

Posts: 3,522

02-07-2005 13:38

/20/1a/34690/1.html

I think that's the heart of the thread Jeska put up in the Linden forums.

_____________________

---

Moleculor Satyr

Fireflies!

Join date: 5 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,650

02-07-2005 13:39

From: someone

I much prefer the in-game "abuse reporting" model, whereby it's not a problem unless someone reports it as such.

Question is, in the most recent set of events, how do you know someone DIDN'T report the problem? I'm actually willing to bet that most actions taken in any instance of problems on the entire board are the result of someone reporting a post/problem, which is precisely why you see inconsistancy in how they handle things.

_____________________

</sarcasm>

Devlin Gallant

Thought Police

Join date: 18 Jun 2003

Posts: 5,948

02-07-2005 18:54

Hmm, I can't help it, but I equate censorship with facism. Always have.

_____________________

I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.

Cybin Monde

Resident Moderator (?)

Join date: 27 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,468

i find it easy, really.

02-08-2005 00:19

i agree that this topic should be debated in a mature and logical manner. recent events, while they may be following rules, have cast doubt into the positive role that they should be playing.

my opinion is simple.. moderate, but moderate moderately.

i agree with having rules and guidelines for the forums, nobody wants to see things get ugly. now, i also submit that these rules/guidelines can be followed too closely.. which, as a result, becomes a negative representation of itself.

and there's our key: negative vs. positive.

i've never known anybody of a sound mind who took offense to someone saying thank you.

so, the need for moderation is just as old as drama and i submit it be kept to such. edit, delete, whatever when necessary.. keep negative vibes in line, but as far as positive posting goes.. let it be! how can we grow as a community when we're being censored for being positive? for being thankful? for showing appreciation?

i thank *edit* for doing the job diligently, but i suggest that the letter that's being followed be re-examined.. for the sake of our communal well being.

_____________________

"We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it."
- Philip Linden

"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be."
- Willy Wonka (circa 1971)

SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.

Torley Linden

Enlightenment!

Join date: 15 Sep 2004

Posts: 16,530

02-08-2005 00:21

Oh thanks Cybin, I'm with you there all the way.

Made me smile.

We have so much to be thankful for.

_____________________

Jeska Linden

Administrator

Join date: 26 Jul 2004

Posts: 2,388

how to help with consistency...

02-08-2005 12:29

Just as an aside, taken from the Forum Guidelines (linked at the top of the forums), the "Your Role in Helping to Moderate the Forums" section:

There’s a significant amount of traffic to the Second Life Forums, and it isn’t possible for us to read every thread. You can help keep the forums constructive and useful with the following tools:

* Ratings – Each thread can be rated from 1 to 5. If you feel a thread is particularly interesting or helpful, rate it 5. Those threads that are posted with the intention of inciting negative response (see Flaming, Spamming, Trolling below) should be rated 1. Your ratings will help others know what to expect, and what to spend time with.
* Report posts – If you see a post that you think violates the Community Standards, is posted in the wrong forum, or in some way requires review, please report it. We’ll take a look at it and will take any action necessary.
* Ignoring – If for some reason you and another individual never see eye-to-eye you can choose to ignore that individual rather than respond negatively. To ignore people, click on the name of the person who posted the message. This will pull up their public information. Select "add to ignore list" at the bottom of their panel to ignore all posts by that person.

Often, a post/thread is moderated after being brought to the attention of the admins via reporting a post or being rated high/low, so please utilize the tools within the forum software to assist us in creating a forum space for everyone.

Moopf Murray

Moopfmerising

Join date: 7 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,448

02-08-2005 12:33

From: Jeska Linden

Often, a post/thread is moderated after being brought to the attention of the admins via reporting a post or being rated high/low, so please utilize the tools within the forum software to assist us in creating a forum space for everyone.

So why haven't you dealt with a single off-topic thread in this General forum that I've pedantically reported over the last couple of days? You want to mod in a certain way then do it with an even hand, don't do it less than half-baked.

Consistency in the spirit of SL's censorship policies?
Morse Dillon Lifetime Member Join date: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 142	02-07-2005 13:16 I managed to miss most of the "Naming Names" drama the last few days, but have gone back and read most of the related threads... I do not in any way intend for this thread to become redundant, but I would like to solicit discussion regarding LL's overarching policy of censorship in-world and on the forums. Do people generally feel that they are consistent, and if they are different what are the justifiable reasons? Personally speaking, I would like to see a hands-off approach to the whole forum censorship thing. Flamewars have been part of online communication since the very beginning, and I'm not sure that it's in LL's best interests to spend the time and effort to (edit) every last forum post. I much prefer the in-game "abuse reporting" model, whereby it's not a problem unless someone reports it as such. We're all adults here, and it's mildly insulting to think that LL is going to "protect" me from any flames directed at me. But who am I to Second Guess... _____________________ King Morse Dillon King of Second Life
Paolo Portocarrero Puritanical Hedonist Join date: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 2,393	02-07-2005 13:20 I guess I would like to know what works well in other MMOs. This is the only MMO that I play, so it might be nice to hear what works (or doesn't work) with other online games. _____________________ Facades by Paolo - Photo-Realistic Skins for Doods > Flagship store, Santo Paolo's Lofts & Boutiques > SLBoutique
David Valentino Nicely Wicked Join date: 1 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,941	02-07-2005 13:22 Ban him! ^^ I wish it was free and uncensored as well, though I would miss Jeska. We are an 18+ community, and can police ourselves pretty well, or at the very least, sit back and eat popcorn while the drama happens. If that were ever to happen, I would still recommend a moderated "newb" forum, so folks fresh to the game can lose thier forum virginity in a gentle, loving way. _____________________ David Lamoreaux Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
Moopf Murray Moopfmerising Join date: 7 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,448	02-07-2005 13:25 Moderating a busy forum as this will always leave you open to calls of inconsistency, but this can be mitigated a lot by having full-time, 24 hour moderators who's job it is to moderate and nothing more. Anything other than that and too much gets missed. What happens on these forums amounts to random moderation as they are not moderated with any concentrated time and effort - they seem to moderate in bursts and only then sporadically. The thing is, the more rules you make, the more you have to moderate. LL have created many more rules but the implementation of them is lacking due to the lack of an always present moderator. They seem to want to mould the forum, but aren't willing to put the effort in to achieve their "vision". It's something I'm not sure they grasp. If you want the rules, have moderators who are visibly here and doing their job more frequently. Otherwise, don't moderate at all.
Jeffrey Gomez Cubed™ Join date: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 3,522	02-07-2005 13:38 /20/1a/34690/1.html I think that's the heart of the thread Jeska put up in the Linden forums. _____________________ ---
Moleculor Satyr Fireflies! Join date: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,650	02-07-2005 13:39 From: someone I much prefer the in-game "abuse reporting" model, whereby it's not a problem unless someone reports it as such. Question is, in the most recent set of events, how do you know someone DIDN'T report the problem? I'm actually willing to bet that most actions taken in any instance of problems on the entire board are the result of someone reporting a post/problem, which is precisely why you see inconsistancy in how they handle things. _____________________ </sarcasm>
Devlin Gallant Thought Police Join date: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 5,948	02-07-2005 18:54 Hmm, I can't help it, but I equate censorship with facism. Always have. _____________________ I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
Cybin Monde Resident Moderator (?) Join date: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,468	i find it easy, really. 02-08-2005 00:19 i agree that this topic should be debated in a mature and logical manner. recent events, while they may be following rules, have cast doubt into the positive role that they should be playing. my opinion is simple.. moderate, but moderate moderately. i agree with having rules and guidelines for the forums, nobody wants to see things get ugly. now, i also submit that these rules/guidelines can be followed too closely.. which, as a result, becomes a negative representation of itself. and there's our key: negative vs. positive. i've never known anybody of a sound mind who took offense to someone saying thank you. so, the need for moderation is just as old as drama and i submit it be kept to such. edit, delete, whatever when necessary.. keep negative vibes in line, but as far as positive posting goes.. let it be! how can we grow as a community when we're being censored for being positive? for being thankful? for showing appreciation? i thank edit for doing the job diligently, but i suggest that the letter that's being followed be re-examined.. for the sake of our communal well being. _____________________ "We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it." - Philip Linden "There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be." - Willy Wonka (circa 1971) SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.
Torley Linden Enlightenment! Join date: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 16,530	02-08-2005 00:21 Oh thanks Cybin, I'm with you there all the way. Made me smile. We have so much to be thankful for. _____________________
Jeska Linden Administrator Join date: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 2,388	how to help with consistency... 02-08-2005 12:29 Just as an aside, taken from the Forum Guidelines (linked at the top of the forums), the "Your Role in Helping to Moderate the Forums" section: There’s a significant amount of traffic to the Second Life Forums, and it isn’t possible for us to read every thread. You can help keep the forums constructive and useful with the following tools: * Ratings – Each thread can be rated from 1 to 5. If you feel a thread is particularly interesting or helpful, rate it 5. Those threads that are posted with the intention of inciting negative response (see Flaming, Spamming, Trolling below) should be rated 1. Your ratings will help others know what to expect, and what to spend time with. * Report posts – If you see a post that you think violates the Community Standards, is posted in the wrong forum, or in some way requires review, please report it. We’ll take a look at it and will take any action necessary. * Ignoring – If for some reason you and another individual never see eye-to-eye you can choose to ignore that individual rather than respond negatively. To ignore people, click on the name of the person who posted the message. This will pull up their public information. Select "add to ignore list" at the bottom of their panel to ignore all posts by that person. Often, a post/thread is moderated after being brought to the attention of the admins via reporting a post or being rated high/low, so please utilize the tools within the forum software to assist us in creating a forum space for everyone.
Moopf Murray Moopfmerising Join date: 7 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,448	02-08-2005 12:33 From: Jeska Linden Often, a post/thread is moderated after being brought to the attention of the admins via reporting a post or being rated high/low, so please utilize the tools within the forum software to assist us in creating a forum space for everyone. So why haven't you dealt with a single off-topic thread in this General forum that I've pedantically reported over the last couple of days? You want to mod in a certain way then do it with an even hand, don't do it less than half-baked.

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

Consistency in the spirit of SL's censorship policies?