Interesting Law in Montana re: Patriot Act

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2005/04/02/build/state/68-pat-act.inc

People in Montana like their rights. Very interesting.

I'm not surprised. I lived in Montana for a few years. For the most part, the people I met there were friendly and self-reliant, and took both their rights and their responsibilities very seriously.

Too bad it doesn't have any actual legal weight.

Heh. Wouldn't it be funny if the next American Civil War was fought over the Patriot Act?

My Dad swears it could happen.

-- jj

I just read the book about John Titor. He posted to a web forum claiming to be from the year 2036. He says that there will be a world war in 2015. It starts as a civil war here over our rights being taken away. Interesting book to read at this time of political turmoil.

The whole Titor scenario is one which I've always felt was impending. The nation is becoming increasingly polarized, as large swaths of the country are now almost entirely Conservative, save for the enclaves of Liberal enlightenment in most major cities. I doubt that this conflict will ever degenerate into armed combat, but it is at least in the realm of possibility.

I'm amazed that there are already books published about Titor, though. Almost all of the info and analyses is already publicly available, for everyone's reading enjoyment.

John Titor made it pretty clear that the Civil War begins toward the end of 2004, though--which didn't happen. So, it's safe to say by now that everything he was saying was not based on reading the past, but rather reading the future. We can all see the potential for war; in that regard, we're all mini prophets. On the other hand, it might not happen as precisely as "John Titor" because he was clearly telling a story all along.

Well, also bear in mind that he claimed he wasn't from our future, but simply a future. So his predictions may or may not have any bearing on our own historical development.

Just keep your Civil War to yourselves, okay? It's too cold to fight up here in Canada, anyway.

Edit: I think this quotation from the article pretty well sums up the attitude of the current US Federal Administration:

The U.S. is not really becoming more polarized. The appearance that it is is simply an artifact of the two-party system, where our huge diversity of political views are being simplified into an us-versus-them viewpoint. This is both a function of the two party system and a media which represents data in binary format -- red or blue.

Here's an interesting website that shows the data in a format that isn't geographically biased and uses more than two bits to represent geographic voting preferences. The results are still filtered by the two-party system but interesting nonetheless.

When looking at the maps, note how unlikely a civil-war scenario actually is. Many regions characterized by the binary values "blue" and "red" are in fact quite divided themselves.

~Ulrika~

Hehe I bet that site gets more links from people "discussing" politics online than any other

Regarding that library thing that they mention in there, some comedian, I forget who, wrote that libraries should put up signs that say "The Federal Government has not been here to inspect your records this week" and if it suddenly comes down, people can just infer...

Ulrika,

Though you're correct in asserting that things are not as black and white (or red and blue) as we might think, Titor did not suggest that the civil war would be between two cohesive nation-states. His claim (however unlikely it may be) was that the war was between the people in the countryside and the people in the cities. Your map suggests that this is a plausible scenario, as there is still a marked concentration of Democrats in small areas. Per Titor's scenario, the largely red areas see an increase in population as like-minded individuals flee from the cities. Thus, the populations both outside of the cities and inside become even more extreme in their viewpoints, much like diffusion in an alloy. If you doubt the validity of this diffusion, then I turn your attention to the reality of the exurbs throughout the country, which are filling up with relatively conservative people looking to escape the cities. It is certainly very true that the nation's political geography is becoming more and more polarized every day, and I think conflict is inevitable. The question is really whether or not that conflict will ever escalate into actual civil war.

Reminds me of the constitutional convention that almost took place a few years ago... you will never know the political lobby force that was expended to ensure it never happened. The Heritage Foundation working with the ACLU working with the NRA working with the AARP, etc.

If you drop a lobster into a pot of boiling water, he'll fight like hell to get out... but if you put that lobster in a cozy room and gradually turn up the heat, by the time he figures out something is wrong... he's dinner.

The United States Federal Government is a very efficient and effective steamer of lobster.

Care to elaborate on that further?

Funny that titor didn't warn about any impending attacks in late 2001 (his posts were from 2000 to march 2001)... regardless of your political, historical, or economic bents, 9-11 is one of the most significant events in the last 50 years, and would have definitely been well-remembered by his "timeline" (much like how we remember pearl harbor quite easily).

Considering the ominous, vague tone of his posts, he could have easily have done "well, wait 8 months and blah blah blah" if he were legit... but he isn't.

I think it's just a sham to sell merchendise (as the book seems to prove).

Interesting story, though.

LF

Many city councils thoughout America have passed resolutions against the Patriot Act. Here's a link to the list, http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11294&c=207 it also says that there have been four statewide resolutions but their link doesn't seem to work so I don't know which ones.

John Titor is facinating and I anxiously waited for 2004 to roll around to see if any of his predictions came true. Things don't seem to be playing the way he predicted but there has definitely been a rise in authoritarianism and stripping away of civil liberties which has a similar flavor to what he was talking about.

He mentioned in one post, and I'm not quoting directly obviously, but it was something like, "I can't tell you anything that would save one person over another, but let's just say things like earth quakes and airplane crashes are on their way..." yada yada.

I too am a time traveller from the future. While I can't tell you anything that would save one person over another, let's just say things like earth quakes and airplane crashes are on their way.

Neehai! You are John Titor. Damn, I knew it was a hoax.

Neehai, omg like omg! What r teh next prisedent gonna be like?!!

Yes. I see what you're saying.

Interesting. Anecdotally I can verify that we moved to the city for just such a reason. We loathe the conformity (and SUVs) of the suburbs. Death to Walmart shoppers!

I've been told by the resident energy expert that the conflict will be rendered moot when the oil shortages start to affect the economy. I'm not sure what that means.

~Ulrika~

I think it's a travesty that the patriot act limits americans' rights but doesn't touch illegal immegrants. Gee weren't a bunch of 9/11 terrorists here illegally?

Please, please, oh God, tell me that the colours teal and salmon will NOT be making a comeback?!

or Mauve.... gags

Mmm... salmon...

That's because the administration doesn't think immigrants are entitled to any rights. Remember those marvelous "interrogations" which our government performed on suspected terrorists? The ones where the suspects were flown out of the country, and tortured? For skeptics: what purpose is served by rendition to a country which allows torture? What benefit is there in transferring someone to another country, besides the ability to supercede American law?