Second Life Forums Archive - The spelling of 'avatar'.

Christopher Omega

Oxymoron

Join date: 28 Mar 2003

Posts: 1,828

10-23-2003 19:04

I was pondering why I spelled 'avatar' :;cringe:: with an i, resulting in 'avitar'. Ive always had a knack for spelling things correctly... What I find odd about the 'correct' spelling is that it has a triple voul, I've never seen anything like that before (and I thought it was a big no-no in the English language.)

So uh... what are your opinions on the subject

.

==Chris

_____________________

October 3rd is the Day Against DRM (Digital Restrictions Management), learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm

James Miller

Village Idiot

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,500

10-23-2003 19:09

I've told you for MONTHS you were spelling it wrong. Now you finally listen. *GAH*

P.S. Work, NOW!

_____________________

George W. Bush hates America.

Darwin Appleby

I Was Beaten With Satan

Join date: 14 Mar 2003

Posts: 2,779

10-23-2003 21:00

FINALLY YOU CATCH ON!!! AVATAR AVATAR AVATAR AVATAR

_____________________

Touche.

Loki Pico

Registered User

Join date: 20 Jun 2003

Posts: 1,938

10-23-2003 22:02

I looked up the definition and took awhile to find it how we use it. Sort of interesting, as far as this thread goes

From: someone

n. Syn. [in Hindu mythology, the incarnation of a god]
1. Among people working on virtual reality and cyberspace
interfaces, an "avatar" is an icon or representation of a user in a shared virtual reality. The term is sometimes used on MUDs.
2. [CMU, Tektronix] root, superuser. There are quite a few Unix machines on which the name of the superuser account is `avatar' rather than `root'. This quirk was originated by a CMU hacker who found the terms `root' and `superuser' unimaginative, and thought `avatar' might better impress people with the responsibility they were accepting.

The common definitions:
1 : the incarnation of a Hindu deity (as Vishnu)
2 a : an incarnation in human form b : an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person
3 : a variant phase or version of a continuing basic entity

Jake Cellardoor

CHM builder

Join date: 27 Mar 2003

Posts: 528

Re: The spelling of 'avatar'.

10-23-2003 22:05

From: someone

Originally posted by Christopher Omega
What I find odd about the 'correct' spelling is that it has a triple voul, I've never seen anything like that before (and I thought it was a big no-no in the English language.)

Triple vouls are indeed forbidden. Using a vowel three times is not.

Jake Cellardoor

CHM builder

Join date: 27 Mar 2003

Posts: 528

10-23-2003 22:14

From: someone

Originally posted by Loki Pico
I looked up the definition and took awhile to find it how we use it.

Neal Stephenson's _Snowcrash_ popularized the current usage of "avatar." He may have come up with it independently, but apparently it was first used way back in 1985 for LucasFilm's Habitat project:

http://www.digitalspace.com/avatars/book/chtu/chtu1.htm

Zana Feaver

Arkie

Join date: 17 Jul 2003

Posts: 396

10-23-2003 22:28

Jake has it right. And btw it is VOWEL

. Triple vowels are forbidden but using the same vowel in three different syllables is not. I imagine the reason you spelled it with an "I" as opposed to an "a" is because of the way you pronouce the word. I pronounce it A (short a sound) Va (again short a) Tar (third short a). If you pronounce that center "a" with an "e" sound it might induce you to spell the word with an "i" in that spot.

The first "a" in Avatar is its own syllable, which might be the confusing factor. Syllables always have only *one* pronouncable vowel. Therefore, the first "a" in Avatar is a single syllable, the second is va and the third is tar

. Make sense? Helpful? I'm teaching a reading class this semester so I can talk about syllables until my eyes cross

.

Zana

Jonathan VonLenard

Resident Hippo

Join date: 8 May 2003

Posts: 632

10-24-2003 01:26

I never do this, but since Darwin hasn't jumped it yet and it fits since this is a thread about spelling

Vowel is spelled Vowel

JV

EDIT: DARN ZANA BEAT ME TO IT

_____________________

"Now that we're here, it's so far away
All the struggle we thought was in vain
And all the mistakes, one life contained
They all finally start to go away
And now that we're here, it's so far away
And I feel like I can face the day
And I can forgive
And I'm not ashamed to be
The Person that I am today"

Gwydeon Nomad

Registered User

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 480

10-24-2003 09:00

We were using avatar in Ultima 1 back in the 4 bit days

Daniel Linden

Contains Multitudes

Join date: 23 Apr 2003

Posts: 103

10-24-2003 09:05

My trusty OED tells me that avatar is derived from a Sanskrit word...avatara -- decent of a diety.

Eggy Lippmann

Wiktator

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 7,939

10-24-2003 09:26

Bzzt! Wrong.
The first three Ultima games referred to the player as a stranger from another world. The word "avatar" was introduced in Ultima IV : Quest of the Avatar (released in 1985), along with the system of virtues and many other things.
Interesting tidbit of information, the popular Ultima series of games started back in 1979 with the limited release of a cassete based game for the Apple II called Akalabeth.
Richard Garriot manually recorded and ziplocked every copy of the game, which included photocopies of his handwritten "manual".
Only about a dozen copies were ever sold. If you have one, you're rich.

Sinclair Valen

The One who Was

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 360

Re: spelling of 'avatar' / triple vowels?

10-24-2003 09:34

From: someone

Originally posted by Jake Cellardoor
Triple vouls are indeed forbidden. Using a vowel three times is not.

From: someone

Originally posted by Zana Feaver
Jake has it right. And btw it is VOWEL . Triple vowels are forbidden but using the same vowel in three different syllables is not.

Um, since when is a triple vowel forbidden in English?
I can think of a few examples fairly quickly...

YOU, odIOUs, insidIOUs, sEEIng, mOOIng... (hey this makes a great abuse thread!)

Or are we referring to triples of the SAME vowel?

Just curIOUs,

=Sinclair

_____________________

* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - *
SL Fiction:: "HIPPOS: Gnomecrusher's Legacy"

In a world of Second Life, Stomp, Maw and Wallow are three young hippos.
Seeking to avenge their lost father, they soon discover a threat to all Avatars.

(2006-0

Unforgotten. Please stand by.

Gwydeon Nomad

Registered User

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 480

10-24-2003 09:56

Dangit

lol

Zana Feaver

Arkie

Join date: 17 Jul 2003

Posts: 396

10-24-2003 10:52

yeah, triples of the same vowel

. Y is actually a semi-vowel which means it acts a consonant or vowel depending on the word so in "you" it's actually acting as a consonant. And I guess, to get really technical, in a word like "mooing" -- the ing is actually a suffix in that word and thus a separate syllable so . . .darn I'll have to look it up

.

Zana

_____________________

Zana's Dressmakers' Shops: Medieval, Fantasy, Gorean, and period clothing for men & women. Great little party dresses and lingerie. Home of the Ganja Fairy.

Gwydeon Nomad

Registered User

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 480

10-24-2003 11:07

Where are the English Majors when you need them...

<shouts> Oooh Beryl!!!

Oracle Omega

MMORPG Pioneer

Join date: 31 Dec 1969

Posts: 61

10-24-2003 13:55

From: someone

Originally posted by Jake Cellardoor
Neal Stephenson's _Snowcrash_ popularized the current usage of "avatar." He may have come up with it independently, but apparently it was first used way back in 1985 for LucasFilm's Habitat project:

http://www.digitalspace.com/avatars/book/chtu/chtu1.htm

:: Blush :: It's Avatar, from the Hindi. Neal did come up with it independently, though years later.

A summary of this history is here:
http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2002Q1/msg00011.php

Oracle Omega

Jake Cellardoor

CHM builder

Join date: 27 Mar 2003

Posts: 528

10-24-2003 14:06

Well, of course it's from the Hindi (or Sanskrit, more precisely). I thought everyone knew that already. I wasn't suggesting that Neal Stephenson invented the term; just that he popularized its usage in the context of VR.

I remember when "duppet" (for digital puppet) was being suggested as the term. The fact that we all use "avatar" is a result of _Snowcrash_.

David Cartier

Registered User

Join date: 8 Jun 2003

Posts: 1,018

10-25-2003 08:18

Well, how about "beauty", then? Noone in my acquaintance pronounces it 'bee-ooh-tee'.

From: someone

Originally posted by Zana Feaver
yeah, triples of the same vowel. Y is actually a semi-vowel which means it acts a consonant or vowel depending on the word so in "you" it's actually acting as a consonant. And I guess, to get really technical, in a word like "mooing" -- the ing is actually a suffix in that word and thus a separate syllable so . . .darn I'll have to look it up .

Zana

Zana Feaver

Arkie

Join date: 17 Jul 2003

Posts: 396

10-26-2003 18:03

beau-ty: there is only one pronouncable vowel per syllable and the eau sounds like like a long "u"

. "Y" in that word is acting as a vowel

. Thus its semi-vowel status

.

Zana

_____________________

Zana's Dressmakers' Shops: Medieval, Fantasy, Gorean, and period clothing for men & women. Great little party dresses and lingerie. Home of the Ganja Fairy.

Dusty Rhodes

sick up and fed

Join date: 3 Aug 2003

Posts: 147

10-29-2003 06:59

From: someone

Originally posted by David Cartier
Well, how about "beauty", then? Noone in my acquaintance pronounces it 'bee-ooh-tee'.

Well, David, y'all def'nitly aint from the south. I caught a bass in the crick back of the trailer t'other day, and boy howdy, she was a bee-you-tee!

The spelling of 'avatar'.
Christopher Omega Oxymoron Join date: 28 Mar 2003 Posts: 1,828	10-23-2003 19:04 I was pondering why I spelled 'avatar' :;cringe:: with an i, resulting in 'avitar'. Ive always had a knack for spelling things correctly... What I find odd about the 'correct' spelling is that it has a triple voul, I've never seen anything like that before (and I thought it was a big no-no in the English language.) So uh... what are your opinions on the subject . ==Chris _____________________ October 3rd is the Day Against DRM (Digital Restrictions Management), learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm
James Miller Village Idiot Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,500	10-23-2003 19:09 I've told you for MONTHS you were spelling it wrong. Now you finally listen. GAH P.S. Work, NOW! _____________________ George W. Bush hates America.
Darwin Appleby I Was Beaten With Satan Join date: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 2,779	10-23-2003 21:00 FINALLY YOU CATCH ON!!! AVATAR AVATAR AVATAR AVATAR _____________________ Touche.
Loki Pico Registered User Join date: 20 Jun 2003 Posts: 1,938	10-23-2003 22:02 I looked up the definition and took awhile to find it how we use it. Sort of interesting, as far as this thread goes From: someone n. Syn. [in Hindu mythology, the incarnation of a god] 1. Among people working on virtual reality and cyberspace interfaces, an "avatar" is an icon or representation of a user in a shared virtual reality. The term is sometimes used on MUDs. 2. [CMU, Tektronix] root, superuser. There are quite a few Unix machines on which the name of the superuser account is `avatar' rather than `root'. This quirk was originated by a CMU hacker who found the terms `root' and `superuser' unimaginative, and thought `avatar' might better impress people with the responsibility they were accepting. The common definitions: 1 : the incarnation of a Hindu deity (as Vishnu) 2 a : an incarnation in human form b : an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person 3 : a variant phase or version of a continuing basic entity
Jake Cellardoor CHM builder Join date: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 528	Re: The spelling of 'avatar'. 10-23-2003 22:05 From: someone Originally posted by Christopher Omega What I find odd about the 'correct' spelling is that it has a triple voul, I've never seen anything like that before (and I thought it was a big no-no in the English language.) Triple vouls are indeed forbidden. Using a vowel three times is not.
Jake Cellardoor CHM builder Join date: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 528	10-23-2003 22:14 From: someone Originally posted by Loki Pico I looked up the definition and took awhile to find it how we use it. Neal Stephenson's _Snowcrash_ popularized the current usage of "avatar." He may have come up with it independently, but apparently it was first used way back in 1985 for LucasFilm's Habitat project: http://www.digitalspace.com/avatars/book/chtu/chtu1.htm
Zana Feaver Arkie Join date: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 396	10-23-2003 22:28 Jake has it right. And btw it is VOWEL . Triple vowels are forbidden but using the same vowel in three different syllables is not. I imagine the reason you spelled it with an "I" as opposed to an "a" is because of the way you pronouce the word. I pronounce it A (short a sound) Va (again short a) Tar (third short a). If you pronounce that center "a" with an "e" sound it might induce you to spell the word with an "i" in that spot. The first "a" in Avatar is its own syllable, which might be the confusing factor. Syllables always have only one pronouncable vowel. Therefore, the first "a" in Avatar is a single syllable, the second is va and the third is tar . Make sense? Helpful? I'm teaching a reading class this semester so I can talk about syllables until my eyes cross . Zana
Jonathan VonLenard Resident Hippo Join date: 8 May 2003 Posts: 632	10-24-2003 01:26 I never do this, but since Darwin hasn't jumped it yet and it fits since this is a thread about spelling Vowel is spelled Vowel JV EDIT: DARN ZANA BEAT ME TO IT _____________________ "Now that we're here, it's so far away All the struggle we thought was in vain And all the mistakes, one life contained They all finally start to go away And now that we're here, it's so far away And I feel like I can face the day And I can forgive And I'm not ashamed to be The Person that I am today"
Gwydeon Nomad Registered User Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 480	10-24-2003 09:00 We were using avatar in Ultima 1 back in the 4 bit days
Daniel Linden Contains Multitudes Join date: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 103	10-24-2003 09:05 My trusty OED tells me that avatar is derived from a Sanskrit word...avatara -- decent of a diety.
Eggy Lippmann Wiktator Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 7,939	10-24-2003 09:26 Bzzt! Wrong. The first three Ultima games referred to the player as a stranger from another world. The word "avatar" was introduced in Ultima IV : Quest of the Avatar (released in 1985), along with the system of virtues and many other things. Interesting tidbit of information, the popular Ultima series of games started back in 1979 with the limited release of a cassete based game for the Apple II called Akalabeth. Richard Garriot manually recorded and ziplocked every copy of the game, which included photocopies of his handwritten "manual". Only about a dozen copies were ever sold. If you have one, you're rich.
Sinclair Valen The One who Was Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 360	Re: spelling of 'avatar' / triple vowels? 10-24-2003 09:34 From: someone Originally posted by Jake Cellardoor Triple vouls are indeed forbidden. Using a vowel three times is not. From: someone Originally posted by Zana Feaver Jake has it right. And btw it is VOWEL . Triple vowels are forbidden but using the same vowel in three different syllables is not. Um, since when is a triple vowel forbidden in English? I can think of a few examples fairly quickly... YOU, odIOUs, insidIOUs, sEEIng, mOOIng... (hey this makes a great abuse thread!) Or are we referring to triples of the SAME vowel? Just curIOUs, =Sinclair _____________________ * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * SL Fiction:: "HIPPOS: Gnomecrusher's Legacy" In a world of Second Life, Stomp, Maw and Wallow are three young hippos. Seeking to avenge their lost father, they soon discover a threat to all Avatars. (2006-0 Unforgotten. Please stand by.
Gwydeon Nomad Registered User Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 480	10-24-2003 09:56 Dangit lol
Zana Feaver Arkie Join date: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 396	10-24-2003 10:52 yeah, triples of the same vowel. Y is actually a semi-vowel which means it acts a consonant or vowel depending on the word so in "you" it's actually acting as a consonant. And I guess, to get really technical, in a word like "mooing" -- the ing is actually a suffix in that word and thus a separate syllable so . . .darn I'll have to look it up . Zana _____________________ Zana's Dressmakers' Shops: Medieval, Fantasy, Gorean, and period clothing for men & women. Great little party dresses and lingerie. Home of the Ganja Fairy.
Gwydeon Nomad Registered User Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 480	10-24-2003 11:07 Where are the English Majors when you need them... <shouts> Oooh Beryl!!!
Oracle Omega MMORPG Pioneer Join date: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 61	10-24-2003 13:55 From: someone Originally posted by Jake Cellardoor Neal Stephenson's _Snowcrash_ popularized the current usage of "avatar." He may have come up with it independently, but apparently it was first used way back in 1985 for LucasFilm's Habitat project: http://www.digitalspace.com/avatars/book/chtu/chtu1.htm :: Blush :: It's Avatar, from the Hindi. Neal did come up with it independently, though years later. A summary of this history is here: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2002Q1/msg00011.php Oracle Omega
Jake Cellardoor CHM builder Join date: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 528	10-24-2003 14:06 Well, of course it's from the Hindi (or Sanskrit, more precisely). I thought everyone knew that already. I wasn't suggesting that Neal Stephenson invented the term; just that he popularized its usage in the context of VR. I remember when "duppet" (for digital puppet) was being suggested as the term. The fact that we all use "avatar" is a result of _Snowcrash_.
David Cartier Registered User Join date: 8 Jun 2003 Posts: 1,018	10-25-2003 08:18 Well, how about "beauty", then? Noone in my acquaintance pronounces it 'bee-ooh-tee'. From: someone Originally posted by Zana Feaver yeah, triples of the same vowel. Y is actually a semi-vowel which means it acts a consonant or vowel depending on the word so in "you" it's actually acting as a consonant. And I guess, to get really technical, in a word like "mooing" -- the ing is actually a suffix in that word and thus a separate syllable so . . .darn I'll have to look it up . Zana
Zana Feaver Arkie Join date: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 396	10-26-2003 18:03 beau-ty: there is only one pronouncable vowel per syllable and the eau sounds like like a long "u" . "Y" in that word is acting as a vowel . Thus its semi-vowel status . Zana _____________________ Zana's Dressmakers' Shops: Medieval, Fantasy, Gorean, and period clothing for men & women. Great little party dresses and lingerie. Home of the Ganja Fairy.
Dusty Rhodes sick up and fed Join date: 3 Aug 2003 Posts: 147	10-29-2003 06:59 From: someone Originally posted by David Cartier Well, how about "beauty", then? Noone in my acquaintance pronounces it 'bee-ooh-tee'. Well, David, y'all def'nitly aint from the south. I caught a bass in the crick back of the trailer t'other day, and boy howdy, she was a bee-you-tee!

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

The spelling of 'avatar'.