D&D Online

not sure if you guys know about this, but here's a little snippet for ya:

Dungeons & Dragons Online announcement

screenshots look pretty neat, reminds me a bit of ElderScrolls.

Elder Scrolls is better.




...And I'm not just saying that because I work for Bethesda.

It could have interested me, if they didn't choose to use Eberon, an untested world that many people have more than a few reservations about, as their setting. Even Forgotten Realms, as much as I have come to loath it, would have been better.

And if it wasn't being developed by Turbine, a company that showed with Asheron's Call 2 that they can take a promising game like Asheron's Call 1 and make it absolutely horrible.

It's not the first.

Neverwinter Nights

Uses D&D 3rd edition rules or something. I've been playing this alot lately, actually.

By the way, I could write a LONG (I mean, small book) thing about why using the pen and paper D&D system on a computer is not the best idea (depending on what your goals are).

Sorry, but just because it works without the computer doesn't mean the same system will work just as well on a computer. That's almost never the case. They're probably just using the big D&D name hoping it'll get more sales.

I would be interested in hearing, and debating why a P&P system doesn't work on a PC, and NWN is not D&D Online, NWN was Multiplayer, but very limited, D&D Online is a MMORPG(pronounced More Pigs) Which means its doomed to suck.

Ahh, that's a difference then. This D&D online thing sounds less D&D-ish than NWN is--NWN is best when run as a campaign with a few other players and a DM rather than a mini-MMOG. Well, NWN is closer to the real thing if they're trying to emulate the real thing--apparently they are not if they're planning on a massive multiplayer design. (Yay flood the MMOG market some more! )

I dare you to go to a NWN forum and say "NWN is very limited." It's flexibility in custom content and even ability to be used (although flawed due to the P&P D&D system it uses) for persistent worlds is proof enough for me.

I didn't say a P&P system doesn't work, I'm saying that I think there are better alternatives. (Although some P&P systems might work well, I shouldn't generalize so much.) Mostly because I think a D&D system ignores the strengths of using a computer in it's design (duh, it's P&P) rather than using them to their full potential.

Analogy: Board games redone on computers, Axis and Allies for example. It's dreadfully simple for a computer game but works fine as a board game, where if you look at something like Hearts of Iron which is basically the same thing, you can see how the advantages of a computer are utilized. I wouldn't want to play a board game version of Hearts of Iron. (In fact, it's impossible, because HoI is basically a real-time game rather than turn based.) The moral is--there's no point in directly porting a P&P game to a computer. You're better off desiging your own system (although it could have some elements of a P&P system) so that you can exploit the strengths of computers and avoid the weaknesses of them.

I don't want to get into it too much since it could be discussed all year, but basically the level system concept in NWN (taken from P&P D&D) sucks IMO. In a Neverwinter persistent world, unless it's designed a certain way--(which I have yet to see since everyone is stuck in MMOG mode and refuse to try anything else)--you will always end up with a player base that is segregated by level. In other words, a 15th level character can't really do anything with a 5th level at all, other than tavern chat. And even then you're limited in your chat topics (in an in-character sense), because the low level character hasn't participated in anything the high level character has. The solution, IMO, is to use an informal social-based "ranking system"--sort of like SL would have (or has?) if SL was more of a "game".

There is no better online rendering of D&D than NwN. I developed extensively for the NwN community, in fact, many of the persistent worlds still use my bank and food/rest code (or at least based subsequent versions on it). I also ran a very large persistent world for over a year, and have played the pen 'n paper game since you could still find food crumbs in the black 'n white mail order portfolios...even DM'd at the tourney level. My "basics" softcover rulebook is at least 20+ years old. You ever want to play an online version of Tomb of Horrors, let me know

However, I'm optimistic about the new effort, as it seems dev houses are making greater efforts to offer players what they are looking for in the D&D (or any other) world, since the technology is more a known thing, and tuning it for the "real" experience has become much less a black art. ToEE was great fun.

We'll know when it's released.

Elder Chronicles? Mneh. It's good, but it ain't D&D at all. YES I KNOW I'M AN OUTLANDER.

I meant the multiplayer was limited in the number of users you could have. Sorry I didn't really explain myself. I think NWN was alright(I didn't like the included module, but played some really good fan-made ones). Baldurs Gate 2 is a great example of how the D&D ruleset can be used to good extent on a computer. It didn't throw the D&D in your face and exploit, but instead told a badbutt story and let the 12-sided roll in the background, while still giving stat junkies what they fiend for.

Careful, I think Tiger is a UI programmer for that one. He may flame you!

NWN is definitely the #1 D&D-like game right now AFAIK. Would probably have been better if it used it's own unique system (and still had the same customization power and such), but it wouldn't have had the "pull" of the D&D name to attract as many players. With all it's flaws it's still pretty revolutionary, like SL. No other games quite like NWN are around (that I know of). I've been wanting to see more games where people have vastly different "roles" (DM/Player/etc) for a long time but it's not a common thing.

Lumina snuck a post in while I was typing...

Sure it's possible to get P&P games adapted for a computer, but I still think it's inferior to designing a new system from scratch without any restrictions on how you design it. Porting P&P or boardgames just holds you back IMO. There's no innovation in games anymore.

YOU WORK FOR BETHESDA?!?!?!?!?

*bows*

*bows*

*bows*

*slaps* How could you sell out on the pirate game?! Grr.

That said... Elder Scrolls is uber-l33t. I'd pay for a recreation (or even a Metroid:Zero Mission style re-write) of Daggerfall in the Morrowind engine. Just be a little more flexible in writing things like vampirism and special objects like Azura's Star next time, K?

Tiger,

you work for Bethesda?!?!? i had no idea.. that's just.. awesome!

how about you sneak in a word for us? i have no idea if it's being planned on, but an MMO version of Elderscrolls would take the world by storm!!

*drifts off into dreamland*

ps - at leat this D&D should be a little better than the old Sega one? right? ...right? heheh..

*bows in tigers 1337ness* TEACH ME YOUR 1337 WAYS MASTER! I AM YOUR STUDENT!!!!!!

Does anyone work for the defunct Data East? I want my Shadowrun 2 promised at the end of the SNES and SEGA versions of pt 1...

Arena was great but Betrayal at Krondor was better


I also have to concur that NWN is the closest to Pen an paper you can get on a PC, especially when your players tick you off and *poof* suprise that friendly cleric that joined your now infighting party was really a *gasp* Ancient black dragon!!

Mmmmm... Bethesda.


I'm the original BG fan ;P