How would you change the economy in SL??
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Hikaru Yamamoto
Oldbie
Join date: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 895
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12-13-2003 11:56
Post your thoughts on how you would arange everything in the SL economy. How you think 1.2 should be. Heres what i think Land: Same cost but no taxes. Objects: No taxes, no cost. Go WILD! Same limits to just the sim. Let the people battle out the prim hoarding, it doesn't happen that often anyway. They can always move. Uploading: same as old Scripts: same Animation: the ability to make your own and sell it. Trial members: 14 free trial days with access to everything $800 spending money $10 lifetime: Can't own land, can't build. Only talk, buy, and play. Monthy members: access to everything Lifetime members: access to everything + a t-shirt  not like the 1st ones, different to keep the others special  Money: no mixing RL money with SL money!! It only causes trouble. Like cheating (ex. fake gambling machine), or selling it on Ebay. Awards: stipends remain the same as old plus the bonus. RL money given for good creations is a good idea but giving it to people with the most Dwell is not. Poeple build and sell on other people's land a lot. Some just hang out in certain places all the time. There is no completly fair way of determining who deserves RL money. The only good way it for the lindens to do some research and find out what the best selling stuff is, or the best things that attract a lot of attention. Voting: get rid of those stations >< they are kind of an eyesore too i think. anyway, my $0.02 
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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12-13-2003 14:31
Dump the economy. You want to waste half your life making money? Do it IRL where at least the money matters. Dump the ratings, dwell and vote booths. It's not a popularity contest for the love of god stop evaluating me! I've had enough with grades in college already. Let half the world be a sandbox with all land public. If your build is crap anyone will be able to delete it after 3 days. If you like what you build, link it up and take it into your inveitory - removing the limits on linking would prolly be useful here. If something is truly outstanding then LL will put it on display in a few special designated museum sims. Have a few special housing sims for the TSO refugees who are used to MMOGs being about interior decoration. Supply them with roads, trees, and predefined plots like in lusk/kissling/de haro. Let THOSE be themed. A castle sim for medieval housing, surrounded by large linden-owned walls. A Manhattan (kissling-esque) sim for skyscrapers and apartments, where most of the land would be linden owned to concentrate people into the small area. Build rivers, trees and stuff around the towers. So many cool possibilities in the theme department. Let large groups get 1/4th, 1/2 or even a full sim for a limited time, like a week or a month, to build large collaborative projects. And above all, get rid of griefers as fast as possible, for the love of god, zero tolerance on this one 
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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Re: How would you change the economy in SL??
12-13-2003 14:39
From: someone Originally posted by Hikaru Yamamoto Post your thoughts on how you would arange everything in the SL economy. How you think 1.2 should be.
Heres what i think
Land: Same cost but no taxes.
Objects: FALSE. If there's no cost, the prim-rezzing scripts will go crazy. EVERY sim will be at 10,000 prims in, oh, five minutes. Terrible idea.
Animation: You can't do that now?
$10 lifetime: No land, but you need to build.. that's half the game... self-expression.
Money: RL to SL money will happen anyway.. it's inevitable, whether or not it's "legal".. It WILL happen the more popular a game gets. It's life. I'm over it.
ALso, with your economic model, there are no money sinks. No money sinks mean massive inflation (hi There and Motor City Online). Massive inflation means your stipend becomes next-to-worthless. Worthless stipend means crabby players, crabby players = leaving players, = no game.
There NEEDS to be a way to get rid of excess linden dollars. "official" merchandise, land auctions, official gambling machines, something. anything. Just enough to keep excess money out of the system. Taxes did a good way with that.
LF
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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12-13-2003 14:52
You hit the nail on the head  How many people out there pay money for more when they can get some for free? I think the new system will just make people try to fit within their free land... and I'm beginning to like taxes. In fact I love them! Tax me baby! Harder!
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Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
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12-13-2003 15:01
I'd do everything they did with 1.2 (*ducks*) BUT I would change these things:
Lower L$ Land Taxes - My sweet Jeebus, 10k for 512? Even if we do get money easier that STILL seems too much. I would make it 1 L$ for ever square foot, so if you want 512, thats 512 L$ .
Cost to Rez objects might stay, but taxes on objects would not happen. You atleast have something to build up money for then, without the usual gripes on taxing of objects.
Calling Cards would count toward your bonus, there are alot of fly by trading, but hey, thats part of it, it was incentive to go to events. I'm not a very social person always, but thinking I could make some extra L$ by going and trading cards pushed me to go and be social and have a good time.
Voting booths would stay, but in some other form, I agree the booths kinda are an eyesore on some builds, so maybe a pie menu option on land parcels or something, I dunno. I think Voting is a better measurement.
Thats all I can think of right now.
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Alondria LeFay
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2003
Posts: 725
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12-13-2003 16:52
From: someone Originally posted by Oz Spade
Lower L$ Land Taxes - My sweet Jeebus, 10k for 512? Even if we do get money easier that STILL seems too much. I would make it 1 L$ for ever square foot, so if you want 512, thats 512 L$ .
Yikes, that is probably way too low, much lower than it is today in 1.1. I was thinking 10 per sq foot, so 512 is $5120. Stiff enough that they are not just giving away land, but realistic enough to actually be able to spend that.
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Corwin Weber
Registered User
Join date: 2 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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12-13-2003 18:11
I don't know what the cost can be.... but when a premium user can't maintain 512 square meters.... something's messed up.
We were told that we'd be able to use either lindenbucks or RL money. To most of us that doesn't mean 'well you CAN use lindenbucks.... but we're going to set it up so that nobody's going to.'
I think a lot of us are feeling betrayed by an apparent bait and switch.
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Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
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12-13-2003 20:01
Alondria, I wasn't sure what the current cost is so I just pulled something out of the air, most likely I'd just stick with the current land costs as you stated. So Ignore that part of my post  I agree Corwin, we don't know how easily money will be to come by, but this does look like a "well you have the option, but no one is going to be able to take it" kinda deal.
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"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
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Alondria LeFay
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2003
Posts: 725
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12-13-2003 20:06
Sure, nifty, we have an increased dwell amount to be devided. But there is something else to look at: Those with more land have more potential to gain dwell, just by the fact you can only pack x amount of avatars into a 512 plot or whatever.
Hmm.. interesting concept though.. maybe we should all shrink out AV's down to the smallest size. Then out little plots may "look" bigger.
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Bosozoku Kato
insurrectionist midget
Join date: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 452
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12-14-2003 02:36
My $0.02 opinion at 2:22am...
More emphysis on *making your way* vs dwell/ratings/votebooth farming (vote booths, I love them but too much potential abuse without better checks coded in. Dwell I dislike considerably).
If you don't believe in money making (virtual money making, no problem, a small stipend weekly will keep you occupied). But really money is the *only* item that's a goal to get (for many anyway). No offense to those offering free items, services, etc. But I'd quickly grow bored if I didn't have money as a reward for effort. (yes "thanks" is a terrific reward, but *game wise* I'd like a goal, SL's goals are almost entirely player created -- except for money). There are no levels to grind for, no dragon to aspire to slay, no race to be won, war to be fought, etc etc.. it all boils down to money. And SL's economy is not (yet) geared for it.
Linden bucks for real money is bad, perhaps a necessary option so Lindens can make real money, pay their creditors/vendors, pay themselves, buy food, pay mortagages, etc.. but bad just the same for the game's economy. With purchased money it's a terribly false economy and will never simulate an actual economy (EverQuest is perhaps the best game economy ever, and you certainly can't buy game money from Verant/Sony).
I believe 1.2's prim limits according to land holdings is a good idea. It'll need tweaking. It'll evolve as well (we're already getting a sim-wide prim limit increase with 1.2). The prim limit can only go up up up.
I'd like the see Linden Cents (and dollars), even quarter cent increments. Allowing for more spur of the moment purchases that cost *almost nothing* yet DO cost and thus help churn the economy. $1 for a one-use firecrack isn't going to sell, but sell um for $0.25 and I bet you get some cash flowing where cash otherwise wouldn't flow. Or maybe with the false economy $L1 will seem like $0.01. For now though I don't see it as such. I'd like to see more expendable cash flowing, if even in micro amounts -- it all adds up.
Anywho, my drivel for this morning!
Bos
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Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
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12-14-2003 03:45
YES says I to the cents! I want to be able to pay and charge 0.25 L$! I am somewhat surprised and dissapointed that this isn't already a possibility. I agree with almost everything else you say too boso. Lol. I don't feel like going into details, just wanted to share my support for the cents. 
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"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
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