This is a follow up to David's question. I really do enjoy learning about Christianity.
Okay here's the question, followed by a litttle theory of my own.
First there was Adam and Eve. How did we get all these people from just two original people?
Did god create other people? I think this unlikely.
Did brothers and sisters procreate back then? More likely.
My thinking is this. Adam and Eve, created by god himself were probable genetically pure. No recessive traits for cancer or hair loss, etc.
However, when Eve ate from the tree of life, they were cast out of the garden and their perfection began to fade as they were no longer under the supreme protection(?) of god. *I was corrected, it was the tree of knowledge, not the tree of life
So at the time close relatives could reproduce, but every generation they became more and more impure until we have the situation we have today.
God also said that we would be punished for the sins of our fathers? Could this punishment be in the form of our ever deteriorating genetic code passed from generation to generation starting with our original sinning parents Adam and Eve?
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First there was Adam and Eve, then what? |
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
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10-11-2005 02:40
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Unofficial moderator and proud dysfunctional parent to over 1000 bastard children.
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Dark Korvin
Player in the RL game
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 769
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10-11-2005 02:46
This is a follow up to David's question. I really do enjoy learning about Christianity. Okay here's the question, followed by a litttle theory of my own. First there was Adam and Eve. How did we get all these people from just two original people? Did god create other people? I think this unlikely. Did brothers and sisters procreate back then? More likely. My thinking is this. Adam and Eve, created by god himself were probable genetically pure. No recessive traits for cancer or hair loss, etc. However, when Eve ate from the tree of life, they were cast out of the garden and their perfection began to fade as they were no longer under the supreme protection(?) of god. So at the time close relatives could reproduce, but every generation they became more and more impure until we have the situation we have today. God also said that we would be punished for the sins of our fathers? Could this punishment be in the form of our ever deteriorating genetic code passed from generation to generation starting with our original sinning parents Adam and Eve? Actually you got the story slightly wrong. Adam never ate from the tree of life. The tree of life makes you live forever. He ate from the tree that allowed him to realize right from wrong which raises another question. Why was God angry when Adam and Eve learned right from wrong? |
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Daz Honey
Fine, Fine Artist
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 599
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10-11-2005 02:49
zecharia sitchin claims that the real translation of the bible says that it's not Adam but THE Adam, a prototype if you will, primitive man who had his DNA altered by aliens....
sitchin.com if you want more info _____________________
All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up. - Pablo Picasso
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Alexin Bismark
Annoying Bastard
Join date: 7 May 2004
Posts: 208
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Hmmm
10-11-2005 04:35
Actually you got the story slightly wrong. Adam never ate from the tree of life. The tree of life makes you live forever. He ate from the tree that allowed him to realize right from wrong which raises another question. Why was God angry when Adam and Eve learned right from wrong? Because "knowledge of right and wrong" meant that they were now capable of sin, or doing wrong. That's my understanding of the mythology anyway. Certainly raises the question of: If God gave man free will, and God is all knowing, does God already know what choices man will make with his free will? Hmmm.... I think I'll make it a point to ask The Pope when he comes over for poker Saturday night.  |
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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10-11-2005 04:48
Adam, then Eve, then DINOSAURS!!!!
Stop with all the frickin religious threads! Neehai, you seem to be turning into a religion oriented version of blaze, just spewing any little question or thought that pops into your head onto the forums. Don't make me hafta mute you  |
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
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10-11-2005 05:58
Neehai, you seem to be turning into a religion oriented version of blaze, just spewing any little question or thought that pops into your head onto the forums. Don't make me hafta mute you Rather than continue in my dismissal of Christianity, I have taken the opportunity to expand my knowledge of the religion. You should see the email conversations I have been having with the local churches. _____________________
Unofficial moderator and proud dysfunctional parent to over 1000 bastard children.
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Billy Grace
Land Market Facilitator
Join date: 8 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,307
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10-11-2005 06:17
First explanation is that the story of Adam and Eve is kind of a "campfire story" to explain the history of the Jewish people, the condition of man (living in a state of sin) etc... and it may not be a "literal" explanation but an analogy. This is debatable among the Christian denominations but it is an explanation and answer to your question. Personally, I believe that it is an analogy.
The second is that this story is not about the "first" humans on the earth, but the history of the Jewish people. The Bible does not say that there were no other people on the earth. As a matter of fact, Adam and Eve were afraid to leave the garden for fear of being killed. Killed by who? Killed by other people. Oh, and Kris, animals came before humans and dinosaurs are animals. Hope this helps Neehai. _____________________
I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
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Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
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Ok, I'll clear this up.
10-11-2005 06:20
Straight from the big guy (or gal/cat/fly/wtfever)
Me: Hey god! God: Hello child. What's your name? Me: Willow God: That's a very nice name, Willow. Me: Thanks! I have a question for you. God: Don't mention it. What is it ? Me: What came before Adam and Eve? God: There might be more than one. Me: one what? God: I don't know what. Me: oh God: I don't judge people. Me: Ok who came before adam and eve? God: Nobody you know. Yay.Me: well, that clears that up! thanks God: Interesting. " Nobody you know. Yay." clears that up ? Does that make sense? Don't mention it. _____________________
*I'm not ready for the world outside...I keep pretending, but I just can't hide...* <3 Giddeon's <3 |
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,970
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10-11-2005 06:24
Hope this helps Neehai. It helps but really is a blow to my ideas around the whole "sins fo the father" thing. I guess it is a little late for me to think I could start my own Christian denomination. _____________________
Unofficial moderator and proud dysfunctional parent to over 1000 bastard children.
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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10-11-2005 06:31
Straight from the big guy (or gal/cat/fly/wtfever) If God is an ELIZA bot that clears up a LOT. |
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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10-11-2005 06:39
Regarding where people come from, and the story of creation in the Christian Bible... a great article related to this:
The Other People by Oberon Zell "But none of that applies to us. We have no need for salvation because we don't have original sin. We are the Other People." Enjoy. -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
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10-11-2005 06:42
If God is an ELIZA bot that clears up a LOT. How do you feel about that, Kris? |
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Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
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10-11-2005 08:14
zecharia sitchin claims that the real translation of the bible says that it's not Adam but THE Adam, a prototype if you will, primitive man who had his DNA altered by aliens.... sitchin.com if you want more info I like the Sumerian stuff. The original genesis stories were a lot more limited, sophisticated, and perverted.  It tends to add a flavor of veracity to it, don't you think?_____________________
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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10-11-2005 10:04
Regarding where people come from, and the story of creation in the Christian Bible... a great article related to this: The Other People by Oberon Zell Great link, Ghoti. One of the main contradictions presented there I hadn't thought of before... that god lied to Adam about what would happen if he ate from the tree of knowledge while the serpent told the truth. _____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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10-11-2005 13:05
Did brothers and sisters procreate back then? More likely. First, recall that Lot and his family fled Sodom as it was destroyed by God for reasons unstated With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished." (Gen 19:15) But that left Lot's daughters with a little problem, which they were able to solve:Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father." And Sodom was destroyed for what? And Lot and his daughters spared why?That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. (Gen 19:30-26) Understand though the Bible does get a little confusing (for us mere mortals) because there were Adam and Eve and their un-fratricidally murdered son Cain and then Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech. Woah! where did Cain's nameless wife come from? Why was Cain building a city when the world contained five people? Who did Enoch knock-up? With whom did Irad, Mehujael, and Methushael take their pleasure. Was Eve really busy, or *gasp* unfaithful? Well, Lamach sure was, and whence Adah and Zillah? Now, one could say thatLamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. (Gen 4:17-19) perhaps I'm being overliteral, as the Writer tries to clear this up shortly thereafter: This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man." with more or less the same gappy story recounted in (1 Chron 1). However, just a few pages back, the Writer was quite certain that there were no other peopleWhen Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. (Gen 5:1-4 et seq.). This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created. When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens - and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground - the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. (Gen 2:4-7, underlining mine) And this solitude was reiterated:The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him." Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. I guess there were somethings we were just not meant to understand. But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. (Gen 2:18-22, underlining mine)  |
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Dark Korvin
Player in the RL game
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 769
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10-11-2005 13:24
Because "knowledge of right and wrong" meant that they were now capable of sin, or doing wrong. That's my understanding of the mythology anyway. Certainly raises the question of: If God gave man free will, and God is all knowing, does God already know what choices man will make with his free will? Hmmm.... I think I'll make it a point to ask The Pope when he comes over for poker Saturday night. That is the thing, if your child does wrong, you want them to learn that they did wrong. If a child touches a hot stove, you want them to learn that touching that hot stove is wrong. What type of father figures wants people to have the ability to do right and wrong without ever learning that their mistakes are wrong. I think if God is all knowing, he must be a sick jokester. Can you ask the pope if I can borrow his little vehicle? I'm having car trouble. |
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ZsuZsanna Raven
~:+: Supah Kitteh :+:~
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,361
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10-11-2005 13:28
Oh please, enough of this religion and evolution talk. We all know that the Stork brought us...
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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10-11-2005 13:50
Woah! where did Cain's nameless wife come from? This topic is mentioned in the article I posted. -Ghoti _____________________
"Sometimes I believe that this less material life is our truer life, and that our vain presence on the terraqueous globe is itself the secondary or merely virtual phenomenon." ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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