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Crashing Upon Log-in

Jericho Eizenhart
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2008
Posts: 2
12-23-2008 17:22
Hi All - I'm having an issue with crashing upon login. SL worked fine last nigght but today when i logged in...everything seemed to be booting up fine until it got to 'Loading world' and then *boom*.

CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (2400 MHz)
Memory: 3054 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT/PCI/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.1.2

I've downgraded the NVIDIA drivers...no luck. Reinstalled the most recent ones...no luck.

Any suggestions please? I'm stumped!
Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
12-23-2008 18:50
Your problem may not be driver related but since you said you downloaded and installed the most recent driver for your 8500 card I think you might be compounding the problem you had in the first place. The latest driver releases for both ATI and nVidia have had reports of problems running SL. Try using either version 175.19 or 175.16.......third and fourth from the top of the listing:

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us

I use 175.19 and it works for me and many others claim that driver works for them too.

But, before you install the driver uninstall the driver you have now......and any other driver listed in your device manager. You will have to restart your computer to complete any uninstallation of a driver and Windows will see your card as a "new hardware device" and want to search for and install a driver for it.....just close the box without allowing Windows to do that. Navigate to where you saved the downloaded driver and install it.

Getting a known good driver will, at least, eliminate that as a cause.
Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
12-23-2008 21:47
I'll second Peggy's good advice, and add one more thing. After you uninstall your current driver, run DriverCleaner. The uninstall routines for nVidia, ATI, Creative, and several other device makers are notoriously bad. They almost always leave pieces behind that can cause problems with successful operation of replacement drivers. DriverCleaner does an excellent job of cleaning up.

http://www.drivercleaner.net/

It's well worth the ten bucks.
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Anya Ristow
Vengeance Studio
Join date: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 1,243
12-24-2008 03:28
I wish people would stop recommending driver changes as a fix for everything. You did just what everyone always suggests: You messed with your driver and you listed your system specs. You may have compounded the problem, as Peggy says, but had you asked first you would have been told to do just what you did.

You had a working system last night. Today SL crashes. If you didn't install new drivers, new hardware or a new viewer then messing with your drivers wasn't likely to fix it. Your system and your drivers did not become incompatible overnight.

You probably have a corrupt texture in your cache. SL does not deal gracefully with corrupt textures. The first thing you should try with a crash-on-login problem is clearing your cache. If that doesn't solve it, the next thing to do is make sure that clearing your cache is actually working. Sometimes it doesn't remove all the files. Sometimes windows refuses to remove something and SL doesn't catch it. So, if this is happening you have to manually delete all your cache files. Make sure it is the SL cache you are deleting. The oft-repeated suggestion to uninstall and reinstall SL probably accomplishes this, and is a better suggestion than messing with your drivers.

But, having messed with your drivers you may have a new problem. It's unlikely to manifest itself in exactly the same way, though, so if you are still crashing on login, stop messing with your drivers and try clearing your cache.
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Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
12-24-2008 04:44
Good post, Anya. Point taken.
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
12-24-2008 13:37
From: Anya Ristow
I wish people would stop recommending driver changes as a fix for everything. You did just what everyone always suggests: You messed with your driver and you listed your system specs. You may have compounded the problem, as Peggy says, but had you asked first you would have been told to do just what you did.
,,,,,,,,,,


Not only is your point an excellent one but it's also just common sense. The rule I follow is simple: If there is no convincing evidence that your problem is driver related then leave the things alone. Normally, it is rather obvious when you have driver issues (not always but normally......things like your monitor suddenly going blank when you are trying to look at or use some graphics program (SL falls in this catagory) with an error message from your OS mentioning something about graphics. Other things would indicate driver issues too such as SL giving you that "driver installed improperly or not supported" message...but that can often be an erroneous message too. Always try what Anya mentioned first....only then look at more serious problems. Would you immediately think replacing your carborator or fuel injection system if your car hesitated from stop lights instead of maybe thinking a fuel filter might be the problem?

I can see why people would do that.....LL even states updating your video driver as a solution in the KB. But, driver installations are not quite the same as installing a widget or sidebar on your computer. They are much more important for proper computer operation. Every reinstallation of a driver should only follow a complete uninstallation.......and most people just don't take the time. Actually, I believe most people don't even know how to properly install a driver........any driver, not just video.

Another thing that would help lessen the tendacy for people to immediately jump to a bad driver is for people to actually discribe the problem they are experiencing. I mean like "last night my SL worked beautifully. Now I'm getting a crash upon log in. This started this evening right after I spent time in PS (or GIMP, WoW, or some other graphics intensive program) and crashed out of that program." With information like that then people can hazzard a logical guess that maybe the driver got corrupted in some way with the crash. But, we never get information like that........heck we practically have to beg for system specs in almost every thread. And my quess would probably be something with a driver......but I would never tell someone to go get the "lastest". Find out which driver you are using now and search for it on your graphics manufacturers website and download that driver.......not a later dated one. In the over 2 years I've been using this nVidia 8600GT card I've updated the driver twice after the initial updating when I first installed it in my computer. And the only reason I updated was due an SL mandatory viewer update.......in other words it was obvious that I needed to update.

Complete information (I'm not talking about running some utility that lists every capability of the computer that go for three posts). Just the important stuff. CPU, Operation System, GPU (with the driver version), total amount of RAM (along with type such as PC2600, DDR, DDR2, DDR3, etc), SL viewer version, type of connection to the internet (DSL, Cable, T1, etc), are you home networked and how (wired, or wireless and through a router, etc), laptop or desktop, is your bandwidth limited to a certain maximum. To me those are common sense things to tell up front if you expect anyone to be able to offer a suggestion for you.

I think if people would help the people on this forum to help them a lot of that misinformation would be eliminated.

Off my soap box now. :)
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
12-24-2008 13:49
Does uninstalling and reinstalling SL really clear the cache?
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
12-24-2008 13:51
I don't think it does Suezenne. I'm pretty sure you have to manually delete it after your uninstall. I'll check the next time I uninstall SL.........if I ever do it again. :)
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
12-24-2008 14:29
I seem to have a Nicholaz viewer intalled in my Second Life program folder so I don't want to test it myself, it would be more pain than it's worth.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

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Lillie Tendandes
Registered User
Join date: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
crash like me? please help
12-26-2008 09:37
From: Peggy Paperdoll
I don't think it does Suezenne. I'm pretty sure you have to manually delete it after your uninstall. I'll check the next time I uninstall SL.........if I ever do it again. :)


hi,2 hours ago i installed service pack 1 for windows vista.
then i think update from nvidea also instaled.

now..everytime login to sl..quick see my avi then crash ..came up messege: secondlife aint workin well.
any idea why? is it really service pack i insalled? or nvidea update?

quad core 2.4
8600GT
vista
2gb memory

i already unistaled sl and reinstal it.still same.
Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
12-26-2008 09:49
Clear your cache. I'm pretty sure Peggy's right that uninstalling it doesn't clear it. You can do that from the login window before logging on.

Edit > Preferences > Network
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Kira Cuddihy
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,375
Black screen of death.
12-26-2008 10:16
Has this one ever happened to anyone and any ideas. 12/11 I got the black screen of death while using sl. Couldnt even get my screen back. Took it to the repair shop, they said it was the mother board. At first they thought it was the LCD but changed their mind I guess because it wasnt expensive enough. Since it is a laptop they said the video card comes with it. So I run it for a bit then open sl, the thing goes weired again-strange colors/white turns pink and blue turns green, tells me it is having an abnormal shut down, and I have to reboot the computer just to log in again, then my screen goes black again. Not just the sl screen but the whole screen. I have got the thing to come on 3 times now and each time I open sl this happens. If I get it running again I am going to uninstall and reinstall. I kindly screamed at the repair shop and will take the thing back in if I dont get it running this weekend. Actually I didnt scream at them, just told them they were going to fix it right this time. First time they forgot to order the mother board for a week and fibbed about it. That didnt make me smile. The roads are packed with snow right now.

Can't really tell you my specs because I cant get the screen to come up and not even in safe mode, but it is a HP Pavillion dv8000T Notebook. XP Pro, Intel Duo core Nividia 7600, 2 gigs ram. I have 70% memory left so I know it isnt that.

Oh, I know there is something else that I have to do to completely uninstall sl not just in the control panel but can't remember what it is.

Thank you for your help, frustrated and pissed at the computer repair shop.
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Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
12-26-2008 11:06
From: Kira Cuddihy
So I run it for a bit then open sl, the thing goes weired again-strange colors/white turns pink and blue turns green, tells me it is having an abnormal shut down, and I have to reboot the computer just to log in again, then my screen goes black again. Not just the sl screen but the whole screen. I have got the thing to come on 3 times now and each time I open sl this happens.

Sounds to me like your graphics card is overheating. If you Google for "DV8000t overheat", you'll find overheating seems to be a fairly common problem with DV8000 and DV9000 series HP laptops.

Incidentally, they were among the models affected by the infamous Sony battery recall, which also had to do with overheating. That would be a separate issue from the graphics card overheating, of course, but it's a heck of a coincidence. It seems heat is an all around problem with those machines.

If you're comfortable tinkering inside your computer, take a little time to clean all heat syncs, fans, and vents. Buildup of dust and debris is one of the leading causes of heat related problems. Judging by its model number, your machine is what, 2 years old? It's definitely time for a thorough cleaning.

Also, check the connections for all fans to make sure they're nice and tight. If a fan connection is loose, that can certainly cause overheating, as the fan might not be running at the right speed, or might not switch on when it's needed. And check to make sure all fans spin freely and easily. When you flick a fan blade with your finger, the blade assembly should spin for several revolutions before winding to a stop. If it's difficult to turn, or if it stops right away, the fan should be replaced immediately.

You might also want to look into getting a laptop cooling stand. A decent one can lower your laptop's operating temperature by several degrees.


It's also remotely possible you've got a problem with your RAM, or with the sockets that hold it. Try running Memtest on it, and see if it reports any problems. That would generally give you a blue screen of death, though, not just an instant shutdown, and not those funky colors. So more than likely, it's overheating that's the issue, not anything to do with bad RAM, but it still wouldn't hurt to rule out any memory problems, just in case.

From: Kira Cuddihy
At first they thought it was the LCD but changed their mind I guess because it wasnt expensive enough.

It wasn't necessarily a bad hunch for the repair guys to have thought LCD first. HP laptops, from what I've seen, are fairly notorious for lid problems.

But just so you know, had you actually needed a new LCD panel, it would have cost MORE than a new motherboard, not less. A replacement screen for a DV8000t costs around $400 new ($394 currently at priorityelectronics.com), while a new motherboard for it costs almost $100 less, about $300. ($310 right now on parts4NB.com).
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Kira Cuddihy
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,375
12-26-2008 11:40
Thank you Chosen for the reply. It is 1 1/2 years old. It isnt really overheating, I had to replace the fan in it last year so I know what that feels like. The fan is running smoothly Yes it was gunked up then so I clean it daily with canned air and they were supposed to have blown it out at the repair shop at least that is what my invoice says. OH the LCD was $200 they said. The main reason I am not too happy with the repair shop is that they lied to me several times which didnt please me at all. Then when I called because it happened again, they said you dont have anti-virus installed that is why it happened again, which I do have installed and it updates daily. They also ran an anti-virus and didnt find anything. When I had it working yesterday, I ran the anti-virus scan again, spy-bot and ad-aware and it is clean.

When that recall for Sony came out, I remember checking my battery and don't think it was involved, I will check again.

It doesnt actually shut the machine down, the screen goes black but it has light behind it. The lights flash on it in front of the keyboard so its doing something, I just cant see it.

Can you tell me what memtest is? Is it a down load or something installed on my computer. I have been getting that Library stack Heap thing for the last few months now and then. SL would freeze, I would reboot sl then it would be ok.

These laptops are really hard to get inside of, I watched them take it apart last year and fear set in. I wonder if it is a faulty motherboard or maybe a lose connection from when they installed it. Just grasping at straws here.

Thank you again.
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Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
12-26-2008 12:52
Yikes, I really hate hearing stories like that, Kira. Sorry to hear you've been having such troubles. It sounds like you picked the wrong shop to go to. Just like with auto mechanics, finding a competent, honest PC repair shop can be difficult. Good ones are few and far between. I've got no shortage of horror stories of my own from over the years.

Even the place I go to now, for any problems I can't solve myself, really sucks except for one guy. If that guy ever quits or gets hit by a bus or something, I don't know what I'll do. He's saved my life a few times, often after his co-workers had told me the same kind of nonsensical BS that your place told you.

In any case, it sounds like you've got your bases covered. I'm still inclined to think your video card is overheating, but of course, there's no way I can know that for certain.

To answer your question about Memtest, it's a program you can download from memtest.org. It operates outside your OS, from a bootable CD, USB key, or even a floppy disk. Just download it from their website, copy it to the medium of your choice, and boot from it. It will take several hours or so to do a complete test, and then it will tell you if there's anything wrong with your memory modules.

If it does find a problem, don't assume right away that the named module is actually broken. It could be the slot it's sitting in that's borked, not the module itself. Switch its position with one of your others, and then run the test again, being sure to note which module was in which slot the first time. If the same module in a new slot still shows as problematic, then you know the module is defective. But if another module in the same slot now shows as bad, then you know the problem is in the slot. If everything now reads as OK, then you can assume something just wasn't seated right the first time.

Good luck. I'd imagine you're probably tearing your hair out right about now.
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Kira Cuddihy
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,375
12-26-2008 14:16
That made me laugh. My favorite guy worked there. When I had the fan problem before, he had it in and out in one day and he let me stand there and watch him work. Bad news is he is gone now which I didnt know at the time. Believe me I am going to find him for the next time around.

I did a little searching and someone with the same problem said draining the battery fixed his problem. Now I just have to remember how to remove the battery without throwing it through the window and into the snow. Of course that would solve the problem if it is from over heating :)
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Skia Wulluf
Registered User
Join date: 7 Nov 2008
Posts: 1
I have a similar problem
12-27-2008 05:47
I don't mean to thread-jack but It's better than starting a new one IMO.

I too have the same problem, running an ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series... (on vista)
I have no idea why it wont work, and I've got 8g ram packed into this; I'm really sad that it wont work...

I was able to run SL on my junky computer with all of 4 FPS... but I can't on this.

any ideas on how I could fix this without "Buy a new vid card"?

=\
Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
12-27-2008 10:20
Skia, have you tried turning off Vertex Buffer Objects? VBO tends to be the leading cause of problems between ATI cards and SL. Granted, it usually leads to a distorted display, not a crash, but it's still worth exploring.

You'll find it under Edit -> Preferences -> Graphics -> Hardware Options.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what else to suggest, besides the usual update your drivers, update DirectX, kinds of answers, which I'm guessing you've already tried. I haven't bought an ATI product in years, so my experience with them is pretty out of date. Hopefully someone else can give you better advice if VBO turns out not to be the problem.
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LauraMex Luminos
Registered User
Join date: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 2
Intel Gma(r) 950 Video Card
01-02-2009 13:44
Hello all,
I have video card INTEL GMA(R) 950 and with controler version 7.14.00.10.1187. Does anyone have this same and have problems gettin online in SL? Is ther other version that can work to SL?
Jericho Eizenhart
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2008
Posts: 2
Update
01-03-2009 12:43
Thanks for all the replies - Yes, I made sure to do all the necessary restarts after the driver installs and uninstalls...I've had an issue like this before with a different online game so I'm used to the old driver switch-a-roo.

It was the last chance fix for me since, yes, my drivers and computer didn't decide to just stop working with SL overnight.

After much more fiddling...I decided to say 'screw it' and downloaded cool viewer and it worked perfect.

I decided to try to clean SL/secondary viewers today and reload the LL viewer from the website...same issue....crashes upon log in.

Reinstalled Cool Viewer and works like a charm.

So who knows. *shrug*
Neon Lemon
Registered User
Join date: 25 Dec 2008
Posts: 4
it is KNOWN BUG...
04-15-2009 18:40
read this article for detail:

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=5528

Thanks,
Neon Lemon.