Second Life Forums Archive - Wireless network

Dan Rhodes

hehe

Join date: 5 Jul 2003

Posts: 268

02-02-2004 13:25

I've got cable internet access and a wireless network at my new apt. I just got it up and running late last night. I noticed in SL that I was having a hard time flying around .. I'd fly and it'd take roughly 5 seconds or so before my avatar would actually move. A few times I ended up appearing near a building or wall like my avatar had been flying without actually moving on screen. Hehe I had some serious lag issues everywhere in SL.

I'm sure it's my wireless .. anyone have any suggestions or experience with this type of network? I'm well inside the 300 or so ft range of the wireless. The wireless strength is from 85-100% in the monitor utility that came with my wireless adapater (nic)

I'm curious if fans or electrical cords can interfere with a wireless signal.

I didn't play with it for long before heading to sleep.

Cornelius Bach

Lord of Typos

Join date: 30 Jul 2003

Posts: 241

Re: Wireless network

02-02-2004 13:32

From: someone

Originally posted by Dan Rhodes
I'd fly and it'd take roughly 5 seconds or so before my avatar would actually move.

Well, if what you say is true, How did you actually see the avatars movement?

It may or may not have been your connection. I have a 100base internal lan connected to a dedicated T1 and I was laggy this whole weekend.

_____________________

Corny

_________________________________
"I've got to go eat now" Andrew Palmerstone

Dan Rhodes

hehe

Join date: 5 Jul 2003

Posts: 268

02-02-2004 15:52

haha

well I meant that I'd push the forward button and hold it down for a second or two and release it .. about 5 seconds later my avatar would move forward on it's own.. like a delayed response. Yeah maybe it was something going on this weekend, I'll check it out when I get home tonight.

Thanks for the input

Misnomer Jones

3 is the magic number

Join date: 27 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,800

02-02-2004 16:10

I had the same problem when visiting my Mom awhile back. She has a wireless network and a laptop that met specs. I was in lag hell.

_____________________

James Miller

Village Idiot

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,500

02-02-2004 16:19

Ever since December, my laptop's Ethernet port hasn't worked, so, I've been using WiFi ever since. I have it about 3 or 4 feet from the WiFi hub, but, it works fine. I think the farther you go from the hub, the worse the lag will get.

It may be the type of hub you've got, this one is pretty expensive, I think.

_____________________

George W. Bush hates America.

Cornelius Bach

Lord of Typos

Join date: 30 Jul 2003

Posts: 241

02-02-2004 16:25

I have a new laptop on the way and will be using wifi to play SL with it. I will let you know if i have any problems with it. You might want to check your walls for lead paint. This is harmful when ingested by children, but more importantly, it causes Wifi LAG.

_____________________

Corny

_________________________________
"I've got to go eat now" Andrew Palmerstone

Doug Linden

Linden Lab Developer

Join date: 27 Nov 2002

Posts: 179

02-03-2004 10:31

If you're getting severe delays and long pings like that, the most likely reason is that you're saturating your upstream connection (to your ISP). This is especially true on asymmetrical technologies like ADSL and cable modems, since often their upstream is only 128Kbps. What happens is that if you're near your upstream bandwidth, the buffer fills up, which means that it can often take a second or so for a packet to get on the wire (it depends on the size of the upstream buffer).

Peer to peer applications (Bittorrent, Kazaa, Gnutella) are the most likely candidates for this sort of thing happening. That, or the server you were on was particularly hosed.

As far as I know, running on a wireless network generally shouldn't induce any noticeable delays, at least on modern hardware. I run on one fairly frequently at home - it's 802.11a, though, so it's got a fair amount more bandwidth than an 802.11b network.

However, it is possible that packet loss being induced by a particularly lossy wireless connection could cause issues like the ones that you're describing.

- Doug

Ama Omega

Lost Wanderer

Join date: 11 Dec 2002

Posts: 1,770

02-03-2004 11:08

Ahh I remember getting disconnected everytime someone tried to heat something in the microwave.

Try and make sure your signal isn't going through or around any large metal objects like refrigerators and other large appliances. And microwaves can be especially bad to a wifi signal.

If at all possible use a hardline. With a switch (I recomend d-link) you get 100 or 200mbit connections (full duplex) per computer. Even with wireless a or g you share 54mbits with every other wireless conection. And collisions can be frequent and painful in a lag sense.

Also check the channel you are using, I have not worked with a or g so I don't know about them much. However with b even though there are like 11 channels, there really are only about 3 because each channel needs 2 or 3 (i forget) unused channels above and below it to avoid interference! If your neighbor is on channel 9 and you are on channel 11 you could get a lot of collisions and confusion that your router has to sort through. That means lag as colisions in wireless mean both packets are lost and need to be resent, and your router spends time processing packets not meant for it or jarbled that it could be spent processing your packets. So try switching channels - the best ones to try are the extremes and the middle - 1,6 and 11 I think.

Thats my random advice for the day. Hardwire is also more secure - or maybe a better way to say it is that hardwire is easier to make secure. Less piggy backing of your signal, stealing your bandwith.

Wireless is good for convenience but you sacrifice a lot for it in most cases.

_____________________

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010000010110110101100001001000000100111101101101011001010110011101100001
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Dan Rhodes

hehe

Join date: 5 Jul 2003

Posts: 268

02-04-2004 11:29

Awesome! Thanks for all the advice .. I'm planning on playing with it this weekend.

Cornelius Bach

Lord of Typos

Join date: 30 Jul 2003

Posts: 241

02-05-2004 09:42

Dan, I will be home to test it out tomorrow night. I wil keep you posted as to how it performs, Please do that same for me

Seeya

_____________________

Corny

_________________________________
"I've got to go eat now" Andrew Palmerstone

Adam Zaius

Deus

Join date: 9 Jan 2004

Posts: 1,483

02-05-2004 09:51

From: someone

Also check the channel you are using, I have not worked with a or g so I don't know about them much. However with b even though there are like 11 channels, there really are only about 3 because each channel needs 2 or 3 (i forget) unused channels above and below it to avoid interference! If your neighbor is on channel 9 and you are on channel 11 you could get a lot of collisions and confusion that your router has to sort through. That means lag as colisions in wireless mean both packets are lost and need to be resent, and your router spends time processing packets not meant for it or jarbled that it could be spent processing your packets. So try switching channels - the best ones to try are the extremes and the middle - 1,6 and 11 I think.

[/quote[

3,6 & 8 Tend to be the best from my experience, 6 is the best generally. But a lot of people know this so it sometimes collides with other nearby networks. Just make sure you arnt on 1 or 11, which tend to be the defaults for most AP's.

However personally - and I'm qualified to say so (CCNA + P / Admin of 750 terminal lan) avoid wireless where you can. Too many difficulties & problems that can arise, and it's terrible for anything over a few megs for transfer.

If you can - use a Cat5 cable (RJ45 to some - even though that's just the jack on it) with a switch (bronet are cheap reliable & fast full duplex switches, and I recommend them, but if they arnt availible use nortel/netgear equipment - despite the previous poster, I would avoid any and all DLink based network equipment - it causes nothing but trouble in my experience [bad uptime, need to be reset occasionally..]) in terms of raw USD - the cost shouldnt even register on your radar if you buy from the right places, the only concern people tend to have is where to hide a cable. (also, avoid lengths greater than 25 meters if you want the best speed - remember - shorter = faster)

-Adam

Cornelius Bach

Lord of Typos

Join date: 30 Jul 2003

Posts: 241

02-10-2004 10:29

Dan,

As promised, heres my update. My wireless works so well that I have stoped playing on my desktop at all. I am strictly SL-Laptop user now. and thats from three floors above the wireless router.

_____________________

Corny

_________________________________
"I've got to go eat now" Andrew Palmerstone

Wireless network
Dan Rhodes hehe Join date: 5 Jul 2003 Posts: 268	02-02-2004 13:25 I've got cable internet access and a wireless network at my new apt. I just got it up and running late last night. I noticed in SL that I was having a hard time flying around .. I'd fly and it'd take roughly 5 seconds or so before my avatar would actually move. A few times I ended up appearing near a building or wall like my avatar had been flying without actually moving on screen. Hehe I had some serious lag issues everywhere in SL. I'm sure it's my wireless .. anyone have any suggestions or experience with this type of network? I'm well inside the 300 or so ft range of the wireless. The wireless strength is from 85-100% in the monitor utility that came with my wireless adapater (nic) I'm curious if fans or electrical cords can interfere with a wireless signal. I didn't play with it for long before heading to sleep.
Cornelius Bach Lord of Typos Join date: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 241	Re: Wireless network 02-02-2004 13:32 From: someone Originally posted by Dan Rhodes I'd fly and it'd take roughly 5 seconds or so before my avatar would actually move. Well, if what you say is true, How did you actually see the avatars movement? It may or may not have been your connection. I have a 100base internal lan connected to a dedicated T1 and I was laggy this whole weekend. _____________________ Corny _________________________________ "I've got to go eat now" Andrew Palmerstone
Dan Rhodes hehe Join date: 5 Jul 2003 Posts: 268	02-02-2004 15:52 haha well I meant that I'd push the forward button and hold it down for a second or two and release it .. about 5 seconds later my avatar would move forward on it's own.. like a delayed response. Yeah maybe it was something going on this weekend, I'll check it out when I get home tonight. Thanks for the input
Misnomer Jones 3 is the magic number Join date: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,800	02-02-2004 16:10 I had the same problem when visiting my Mom awhile back. She has a wireless network and a laptop that met specs. I was in lag hell. _____________________
James Miller Village Idiot Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,500	02-02-2004 16:19 Ever since December, my laptop's Ethernet port hasn't worked, so, I've been using WiFi ever since. I have it about 3 or 4 feet from the WiFi hub, but, it works fine. I think the farther you go from the hub, the worse the lag will get. It may be the type of hub you've got, this one is pretty expensive, I think. _____________________ George W. Bush hates America.
Cornelius Bach Lord of Typos Join date: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 241	02-02-2004 16:25 I have a new laptop on the way and will be using wifi to play SL with it. I will let you know if i have any problems with it. You might want to check your walls for lead paint. This is harmful when ingested by children, but more importantly, it causes Wifi LAG. _____________________ Corny _________________________________ "I've got to go eat now" Andrew Palmerstone
Doug Linden Linden Lab Developer Join date: 27 Nov 2002 Posts: 179	02-03-2004 10:31 If you're getting severe delays and long pings like that, the most likely reason is that you're saturating your upstream connection (to your ISP). This is especially true on asymmetrical technologies like ADSL and cable modems, since often their upstream is only 128Kbps. What happens is that if you're near your upstream bandwidth, the buffer fills up, which means that it can often take a second or so for a packet to get on the wire (it depends on the size of the upstream buffer). Peer to peer applications (Bittorrent, Kazaa, Gnutella) are the most likely candidates for this sort of thing happening. That, or the server you were on was particularly hosed. As far as I know, running on a wireless network generally shouldn't induce any noticeable delays, at least on modern hardware. I run on one fairly frequently at home - it's 802.11a, though, so it's got a fair amount more bandwidth than an 802.11b network. However, it is possible that packet loss being induced by a particularly lossy wireless connection could cause issues like the ones that you're describing. - Doug
Ama Omega Lost Wanderer Join date: 11 Dec 2002 Posts: 1,770	02-03-2004 11:08 Ahh I remember getting disconnected everytime someone tried to heat something in the microwave. Try and make sure your signal isn't going through or around any large metal objects like refrigerators and other large appliances. And microwaves can be especially bad to a wifi signal. If at all possible use a hardline. With a switch (I recomend d-link) you get 100 or 200mbit connections (full duplex) per computer. Even with wireless a or g you share 54mbits with every other wireless conection. And collisions can be frequent and painful in a lag sense. Also check the channel you are using, I have not worked with a or g so I don't know about them much. However with b even though there are like 11 channels, there really are only about 3 because each channel needs 2 or 3 (i forget) unused channels above and below it to avoid interference! If your neighbor is on channel 9 and you are on channel 11 you could get a lot of collisions and confusion that your router has to sort through. That means lag as colisions in wireless mean both packets are lost and need to be resent, and your router spends time processing packets not meant for it or jarbled that it could be spent processing your packets. So try switching channels - the best ones to try are the extremes and the middle - 1,6 and 11 I think. Thats my random advice for the day. Hardwire is also more secure - or maybe a better way to say it is that hardwire is easier to make secure. Less piggy backing of your signal, stealing your bandwith. Wireless is good for convenience but you sacrifice a lot for it in most cases. _____________________ -- 010000010110110101100001001000000100111101101101011001010110011101100001 --
Dan Rhodes hehe Join date: 5 Jul 2003 Posts: 268	02-04-2004 11:29 Awesome! Thanks for all the advice .. I'm planning on playing with it this weekend.
Cornelius Bach Lord of Typos Join date: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 241	02-05-2004 09:42 Dan, I will be home to test it out tomorrow night. I wil keep you posted as to how it performs, Please do that same for me Seeya _____________________ Corny _________________________________ "I've got to go eat now" Andrew Palmerstone
Adam Zaius Deus Join date: 9 Jan 2004 Posts: 1,483	02-05-2004 09:51 From: someone Also check the channel you are using, I have not worked with a or g so I don't know about them much. However with b even though there are like 11 channels, there really are only about 3 because each channel needs 2 or 3 (i forget) unused channels above and below it to avoid interference! If your neighbor is on channel 9 and you are on channel 11 you could get a lot of collisions and confusion that your router has to sort through. That means lag as colisions in wireless mean both packets are lost and need to be resent, and your router spends time processing packets not meant for it or jarbled that it could be spent processing your packets. So try switching channels - the best ones to try are the extremes and the middle - 1,6 and 11 I think. [/quote[ 3,6 & 8 Tend to be the best from my experience, 6 is the best generally. But a lot of people know this so it sometimes collides with other nearby networks. Just make sure you arnt on 1 or 11, which tend to be the defaults for most AP's. However personally - and I'm qualified to say so (CCNA + P / Admin of 750 terminal lan) avoid wireless where you can. Too many difficulties & problems that can arise, and it's terrible for anything over a few megs for transfer. If you can - use a Cat5 cable (RJ45 to some - even though that's just the jack on it) with a switch (bronet are cheap reliable & fast full duplex switches, and I recommend them, but if they arnt availible use nortel/netgear equipment - despite the previous poster, I would avoid any and all DLink based network equipment - it causes nothing but trouble in my experience [bad uptime, need to be reset occasionally..]) in terms of raw USD - the cost shouldnt even register on your radar if you buy from the right places, the only concern people tend to have is where to hide a cable. (also, avoid lengths greater than 25 meters if you want the best speed - remember - shorter = faster) -Adam
Cornelius Bach Lord of Typos Join date: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 241	02-10-2004 10:29 Dan, As promised, heres my update. My wireless works so well that I have stoped playing on my desktop at all. I am strictly SL-Laptop user now. and thats from three floors above the wireless router. _____________________ Corny _________________________________ "I've got to go eat now" Andrew Palmerstone

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