Wireless connection

HI, I was just wondering has anybody any luck with running Secondlife under a wireless card. I get classic lag (not video lag) ping times are fine. The Bandwith meter goes up and down, up and down. Lots of walking through walls and such. I have excellent connection with the wireless and can max out my connection with regular downloads but not this. It pretty much makes playing it impossible. Any thoughts besides hooking it up to a wire?
Thanks, BLT

Quite a few people use wireless even though LL don't support it. It introduces to many variables when there is a problem.
The major problem with wireless is not the speed, but latency (the run trip time for commands to be received by the server and sent back to the client). You might want to do some research on how to reduce network latency with you wireless equipment (frame sizes, etc) and get improvement.

Well I did frame adjustments down and then back up and played with the RTS/CTS as well down and back up no help. The thing I don't understand is that I can play FPS online with no problem. This is from the knowledge base

"Current wireless networking solutions are highly prone to interference. (For example, many use the same radio frequency as microwave ovens.)"

And we all know microwave ovens operate 24 hrs a day, lol. PS I don't live in a densely populated area

"Wireless also "breaks" some networking standards, such as delivering packets out of order; this can cause Second Life to run incorrectly. If you disconnect frequently from Second Life while using wireless networking, the wireless products may be the cause."

So I assume this means that they are using TCP and not UDP. That doesn't explain why I can max out my 7 Mbps cable connection through a TCP connection and be connected to several servers. If it breaks standards and cause Second life to run incorrectly, what exactly does that mean? I don't get disconnected, just horribly inconsistent speeds up and down, up and down. I just love walking though walls.

It seems that this could be fixed by changing networking code in the game, but not being a networking programmer, what do I know.

"Many wireless products also use advanced data compression features (such as "speed boost" that can cause problems with Second Life. Any features that claim to increase download speed should be disabled."

Mine does not and I get excellent connection strength and get 54 Mbps connection, which even with only getting a real world 27 Mbps throughput, it should be more that enough for my 7 Mbps cable connection.

I decided to join after hearing about it so many times on NPR and thought it sounded fascinating, I am starting to think that it is more hype than anything so far. The fact that it doesn't work with with a wireless connection in 2007 when they are getting close to finalizing 802.11n next year. I am starting to regret spending $72 for a year. I think I will just have to wait to finish remodeling and then try a wired connection. Or maybe they should do some more work on the network code.

It just kind of stinks.
BLT

PS. I don't have any packet loss issues and pings are good.

Turned off SPI on my netgear wireless router and amazingly it works. Now that is something worth putting in the knowledge base. Especially since it was such an easy fix.

I have used SL over WiFi and it works reasonably well -- but I've usually been in the same room as the access point. You want to be in a spot where the signal strength is Very Good or Excellent (as ranked by the standard Windows stuff) or over 80% on a numeric strength meter; packet loss is usually minimal if you are in such a location. That said, wired is always best if you can manage it.

The weaker the signal is, the more likely it is that packets will be dropped, and even if they are not, latency increases. When packets get dropped, SL loses data or gets it out of order, which confuses the client. Most of the data is sent by UDP in current clients (and yes, they actually seem to expect it to arrive in order -- not the best design), though recent clients have the capability of switching to TCP communications (it's buried somewhere in the debug settings).

First, wireless shouldn't affect latency much. Your latency to LL and back should be far more than the few milliseconds of latency your home router adds (and that's just the router, not the wireless part of it).

Second, there are no "network standards" that state that Ethernet packets need to be delivered in-order. In fact, IP is allowed to deliver packets out of order. So, wireless doesn't violate any standards. I've heard that it increases out-of-order delivery, but I've yet to hear an authoratative, believable explanation of why that should be. (I've only heard it in this forum.) Whoever it is at LL who keeps repeating this complete BS should be stifled. (Feel free, anyone, to cite which standard is violated by 802.11!)

However, service providers try hard to keep packets in order because a lot of applications work better that way. It's not required, just good.

Third, lots of us use wireless. You can try running hard-wired and see if it makes a difference. My guess is it won't, though I haven't tried it.


No, not really. TCP allows packets to arrive out of order. (It HAS to, because IP is allowed to deliver them out of order!) Different TCP implementations have different responses; some force retrying all packets behind the out-of-order one, and those implementations cause lower throughput & longer latency. I don't know whether the Windows TCP is good or bad in this regard. SL originally used UDP, and they were still reputedly sensitive to out-of-order packets. They were talking about changing to TCP, and I don't know whether that happened or not.

The bandwidth usage going up and down is typical. Walking through walls has more to do with periods where your client isn't communcating effectively with the server. I run on wireless (with far lower bandwidth than you) and this only happens to me in very busy sims or very rare occasions.

Where are you seeing this? Places where there are lots and lots of other avs? If so, it's most likely a server issue. Go to a private island and this will be a thing of the past (mostly).

PS: You can play for free; you just don't get a "home" unless you can find someone to offer you one.

HI signal strength was fine, so that wasn't the problem, I figured that they had to be using UDP because it would make no sense for this type of application to use TCP. My problem was the built in firewall in the Netgear router. So turning off Statefull Inspection in the router fixed the problem, while this leaves me open more to attacks on my network I can always turn it on and off.

I just wish there knowledge base was a bit more helpful, there solution was to switch to a wired connection. If they had someone trolling through these suggestions and put in the knowledge base it would be much more useful, for example compile Netgear fixes, Linksys fixes, or even turning off your wireless home phone. While every networking situation is different, I can't do wired now because of remodeling right now, I bet even if I had hooked up with a wired connection I would still get the same problem with that firewall enabled.

While forums are great it can take a long time to find the info you need when I could just do a search on netgear in the knowledge base and the info would be there with suggested possible solutions. They may or may not work but it would seem like they put more effort in there support area it might make some issues easier to diagnose. I had to go though five page of forums before finding that suggestion.

TCP Like the phone company, TCP guarantees that data sent from one end of the connection actually gets to the other end and in the same order it was sent. Otherwise, an error is reported. TCP provides a point-to-point channel for applications that require reliable communications. The Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP), File Transfer Protocol (FTP), and Telnet are all examples of applications that require a reliable communication channel. The order in which the data is sent and received over the network is critical to the success of these applications. When HTTP is used to read from a URL, the data must be received in the order in which it was sent. Otherwise, you end up with a jumbled HTML file, a corrupt zip file, or some other invalid information.

UDP (User Datagram Protocol) is a protocol that sends independent packets of data, called datagrams, from one computer to another with no guarantees about arrival. UDP is not connection-based like TCP. The UDP protocol provides for communication that is not guaranteed between two applications on the network. UDP is not connection-based like TCP. Rather, it sends independent packets of data from one application to another. Sending datagrams is much like sending a letter through the mail service: The order of delivery is not important and is not guaranteed, and each message is independent of any others.

As for the bandwidth going up and down I understand that but it was such a radical up and down like it was getting bogged down some where and never reached its potential, now it is, that was the firewall in the router. Heck I couldn't even finish the welcome island. Now I am showing up as male instead of male which is what I setup and now I have clothes as well!!!! I was naked before.

So if you have a netgear router and are having problems try disabling SPI under the WLAN setup. Worked for me.

Thanks.

We connect through a wireless connection from our DSL line at home. It takes a little more patience, especially on mainland. I also tweaked things in preferences to lower the demand. But we've done it for a year, so supported or not, it does work.


btw, you don't need to be premium to have a home .

multiple types of wireless

1 802.11, this is wireless networking like in your home or starbucks, theres many different flavors over the years, now days 802.11G and 802.11N are your standard issue, G mode operates at 54mbs, N mode is something like 100mbs, either way if your on DSL or cable both are 5x+ faster than your internet, so aside from connection quality theres no bottleneck and no adverse effects

2 cellular, sprintspeed, cingular, cricket ect all have celular internet, a little gadget that pops in your computer and has a little cute celphone antenna, these things are generally slow and very latent, they are great for sitting at the cafe and looking up something on google, not for anything that requires a direct realtime connection to the net (winamp video, SL, wow whatever)

3 clearwire, this is a fairly new thing here in the states, it uses high frequency fm technology to provide internet, ive got it now and it goes anywhere from 768k to 1.5 mbs, which isnt nearly as fast as our local cable or DSL, but those dont cover our area so... its fast enugh for SL, load times going from my 6mb DSL to clearwire hasnt been dramitacly effected, and it has a really low latence (unless theres some uber wicked storm outside, normal storms wont effect it)

TCP option in debug ?

I saw that comment here, anybody know what it is ?

Looked but could not find it, have friend with buggy but fast wireless and it might help. At least worth a try

I briefly had a wireless setup, touted to be 'blazing fast'. It was totally useless, couldn't even log into SL at all. So I got rid of it, and went with Qwest cable.

again what kind of wireless

in home network
local radio
celular
hell packet over ham? (yay 9600 baud over hobby radio)

your "wireless" means about as much to me as "blazing fast" did to you

i ONLY use SL via a WLAN network, even from the garden-works fine. I never had any problems with the wireless connection-the only problems I ever had were the ADSL line itself, when my ISP was borked. I get good bandwidth too.

Well, one time I had this computer and it just didn't work very well at all. That's the last time I'll make that mistake. Computers suck.

Oh, cars too. I had this car that would never start. Screw cars!

And did I mention my ex-wife yet? ...

Hi,

I would like to add another item into the wireless connection discussion and hope someone can help me with it

I used SL over a wireless connection without any problems for about a year now..... on XP. Two days ago I finally decided to upgrade to Vista and was happy to see that it worked with my graphics card. I could move around and bring up the map and the search window. But then it stopped. After about a minute.

Suddenly the wireless connection indicator showed that I had 'limited access' to my modem and no connection to the internet. The signal strength is fine, just 'limited access'. I also tried using a wired connection and had no problem for several minutes.

I guess it may have something to do with the driver, but I checked for updates and Vista tells me the most up to date is installed (OK, it is from 30 Oct 2006...). I have an Intel (R) Pro/Wireless 3945ABG card.

Any suggestions?

aaaa that means you want to do what to your ex-wife?

This message generally means that you've lost your IP address and DHCP cannot renew it. (DHCP is the protocol that your computer uses to ask the service provider, "Please give me an IP address". IP address is the dotted 4-number thingy that identifies your computer for communications.)

So the question is, why is your DHCP lease expiring? Well, let's ask a few more.

Has this happened multiple times when running SL? Is it repeatable?

When your computer is in this state, do you have any other computers that can connect?

Send me a PM and I may be able to help you debug this (if it happens repeatably). However, it may not be easy. And it may not have anything to do with SL.

There are at least two possible implications. You found one of them!

Since this looks like a laptop driver first thing would be to go to your laptop manufacturer and see if it has a newer driver. That may very well fix it.

Also it looks like Intel has some drivers that you maybe able to try at

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=2259&OSFullName=Windows+Vista*+Ultimate%2C+32-bit+version&lang=eng&strOSs=156&submit=Go!

Dharma

I use SL on Verizon Mobile Broadband exclusively, with no problems at all. The application reports 3.1Mbps, and it regularly tests at over 2Mbps upstream and downstream at speedtest.net. If you are in Verizon's coverage area and get a decent EVDO signal on your Verizon phone, then this service will work very well for you.

I purchased a D-Link 7 db gain amplified antenne. my I/O went from
3700mbps up/2100mbps down to 9700 mbps up/4500mbps down instantly.

P.S. Did you know that if a wireless signal hits a inhouse wall (wood studs&drywall)
wich is about six inches think, and it hits it at a cross angle ,say 45 degrees.
The Signal see's a THREE foot thick wall !!!!!!!!

Usil Bailey,,, Mentor Grid Wide :XD