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Parcel auto-return timers malfunctioning.
Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
08-27-2004 23:13
This is going to be a LONG post. It's long because of the raw data I have to present to back up my case. Sorry, but data is important.

Ok, I've mentioned this in another thread similar to this one, but I didn't have any proof to back it up. Until now.

I'm making a self-replicating system of objects that systematically are supposed to go through all the sims and obtain a single reading of the sims' FPS, wait a bit to prevent future objects from backtracking into the sim, and then die when the chance of backtracking is non-existent.

However, due to object-return timers malfunctioning, the 'remain behind' part isn't working out the way it's supposed to.

These objects travel at close to 50m per second, as that's the limit of the llSetPos() movement scheme. There are moments at sim edges where the movement slows down a bit, but only by the amount of time it takes to look up one of about four different vectors in a list. So they'd average something along the lines of 49m per second, I'm guessing.

They're programmed to travel to, and only to, 128,128,500 in a sim. That's the center of the sim, at 500m up.

Travelling from the edge of a sim to the center of it (a distance of 128m) at 49m per second takes 2.7 seconds.

Which means travelling from center of a sim to center of another sim takes twice that length of time, or 5.4 seconds.

So the maximum flight time of these objects in any sim is 5.4 relative seconds. I say relative, because I'm assuming that anything slowing down a sim would also slow down both timers in the sim, and scripts. But lets assume a sim is operating at near perfect efficiency, since most aren't suffering anything less than a 0.99 time dilation.

So, to summarize, a few facts:
  1. Maximum flight time of any given object is less than six seconds.
  2. All objects travel to the exact center (128,128) of every sim.
  3. Auto-return timers on plots of land are measured in minutes.
  4. Each object is above any possible no-script zone by only existing at 500m in altitude.
    [/list=1]

    The following is a quote from my chat history.

    From: someone


    *large chunk of SimMapGenerator text removed, to cut down on spam*

    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Aluluei 2, 128.


    The FIRST LINE of returned objects. The FIRST LINE is of an object that is IN FLIGHT. It was returned while in that less-than-six-second flight. Seeing as auto-return timers are measured in minutes, that should be an impossibility.

    But in case it's a "special" thing with Linden land, lets continue....

    From: someone

    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Aluluei 68, 128.
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Periwinkle, 1004, 1008, 402
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Aluluei 128, 28.
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Quat, 1005, 1004, 760
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.SimMapGenerator whispers: Miru, 1003, 1004, 2264
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Marawa, 1003, 1005, 576
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Hina, 1003, 1006, 1297
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Baku, 1010, 1000, 79
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Rose, 1001, 1006, 55
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Aluluei 128, 148.
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Marunogere, 1005, 1003, 451
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Daikoku, 1011, 999, 84
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Ku, 1007, 1004, 826
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Shaka, 1013, 1002, 104
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Uli, 1011, 1003, 1432
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Butsu, 1013, 1003, 110
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Kuula, 1011, 1002, 2232
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Maui, 1011, 1006, 807
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Hikuelo, 1004, 1007, 54
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Uzume, 1011, 1001, 197
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Vaoetere, 1004, 1003, 645
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Dosojin, 1012, 1001, 781
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Papa 118, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Papa 128, 158.
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Quat, 1005, 1004, 773
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Sido, 1006, 1006, 288
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Baku, 1010, 1000, 73
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Miru, 1003, 1004, 2288
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Marawa, 1003, 1005, 552
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Fudo, 1010, 999, 56
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Aluluei, 1005, 1006, 597
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Sage, 1001, 1005, 842
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Laka, 1011, 1004, 697
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Rose, 1001, 1006, 53
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Tawhaki 128, 228.
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Uli, 1011, 1003, 1452
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Palulop 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Raylin Portocarrero's Home' at Palulop 12, 128.


    Here we see the first evidence of an in-flight object being returned from land that isn't Linden.

    I visited the land in question. It's set to return objects after 20 minutes. Don't take my word for it, visit the land yourself.


    From: someone
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Solang, 1002, 1004, 382
    SimMapGenerator whispers: Butsu, 1013, 1003, 101

    *I'm going to try to remove any further SimMapGenerator lines. I've only left them in so far to try to illustrate the information I'm trying to gather so no one can come in here and ignore the bug and start attacking me for being some sort of land-scanning scum.*

    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Vaoetere 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Miru 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Prime Waterfront in Hina (Mature)' at Hina 238, 128.


    Again, another non-Linden plot returning my object while in the less-than-six-second flight.

    This one is set to one minute.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Vari Hilltop' at Vari 128, 234.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Aluluei 78, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Aluluei 128, 68.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Aluluei 128, 198.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Marawa 22, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Luscious - Ambat' at Ambat 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Quat 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Quat 224, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Hikuelo 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Arda Fauna!' at Solang 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Marunogere 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Laka 82, 128.


    Before anyone asks, this actually turned out to be Linden land without a name. Or rather the boundary between two plots of Linden Land.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Easy Street !' at Olopue 62, 128.


    15 minutes.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Prime Olopue Mature land for sale' at Olopue 128, 112.


    1 minute.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Kane 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Lie 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Mount G'al' at Mahulu 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Palulop 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Pimp n' Ho Club - Casino - East Wing' at Hiaka 42, 128.


    1 minute. At the border to Linden land.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Hiaka Welcome Center' at Hiaka 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Lime 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Lagoon d'Pleasure' at Akea 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Milu 17 Brad Jensen' at Milu 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Plum 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Chromal Brodsky's Land' at Olive 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Olopue 32, 128. ***LindenLand****
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Kex Godel's Home' at Mocha 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Palulop 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Lagoon d'Pleasure' at Akea 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Lagoon d'Pleasure' at Akea 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Olopue 48, 128.****LindenLand****
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Hawk Statosky's Land' at Tan 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at De Haro 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Palulop 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Paikea 128, 255.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Paikea 128, 255.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Paikea 248, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Paikea 248, 128.    ****LindenLand****
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Marunogere 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Marunogere 254, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Marunogere 254, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Vaoetere 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Miru 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Luscious - Ambat' at Ambat 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Quat 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Hikuelo 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Arda Fauna!' at Solang 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Mature Beautiful Island, Great View!' at Ainu 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Markus Keegan's land' at Maui 128, 62.


    1 minute. You can find out what the red text means at the bottom of my post.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Laka Lounge & Resort' at Laka 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel '' at Da Boom 128, 134.***Telehub***
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Whispered Rumors' at Olopue 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Whispered Rumors' at Olopue 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Whispered Rumors' at Olopue 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Whispered Rumors' at Olopue 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Whispered Rumors' at Olopue 128, 128.


    Notice the fact that that last set (in orange) was five objects? Those five objects got returned at once. A thing I haven't mentioned is that the way these objects replicate is that one moves to the center, and rezzes four more, which promptly decide to either go the way they're told to by their start_param, or die, depending on if going in that direction would send them off world.

    The fact that five objects got returned at once tells me that four objects were returned immediately after being rezzed. More on that later.

    BTW, 5 minutes.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Kane 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Protected Land' at Lie 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Mount G'al' at Mahulu 128, 128.
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Zen Zugzwang Zone' at Hiaka 228, 128.


    1800 minutes.

    That's right. 1800.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Hiaka 026 (100,16) - 2048 m2' at Hiaka 128, 28.


    1 minute.

    From: someone
    SimScanner: Your object 'SimScanner' has been returned to you from parcel 'Pimp n' Ho Club - Casino - East Wing' at Hiaka 38, 128.1 minute, listed above.


    Lemme cut this short. I had a ton more returned objects, but I think I've got enough 'data' there to prove a few points. (That and I couldn't keep up with copy-paste any more.)

    A couple other data-points. The plot in red? Kex Godel's home? That's set to 600 minutes. Seriously, you can visit for yourself and see. That's why I've got it highlighted.

    One other thing I did to these objects: The scripts inside them save the state they're in when they're returned. So, for example, if I were to pull one of the returned objects out while it was still in motion, it would continue to try to move to the same spot in the sim I pulled it out. (It'd die rather quickly at that point, because of a 'uncontrolled replication prevention' bit of code I slipped in there, but you get the idea.)

    This time around though, I put in an extra bit of code. The first time the scripted object is rezzed, it runs normally, making sure to run llResetTime() before doing so. Any other subsequent time it's rezzed (assuming that it was returned after the RezzedBefore integer was set), it simply llSay(0,)'s the run-time of the script in question, and then dies.

    Most of the final few objects I got returned had run-times listed as HUNDREDTHS of a second. That's 0.01somethingsomethingsomethingsomething. Usually 0.01172lalalala or 0.0135... Things like that. One or two had 3+ second runtimes, but most had miniscule ones. There -is- a chance that run-time of a script is reset when the object containing it is rezzed, so this might not mean anything, but the -rest- of my data stands by itself.

    So, either there is something SERIOUSLY fucked up with the auto-return timer, or LL has secretly installed code that keeps track of how many 'sub-objects' are rezzed through script, making each one just -that- much more sensitive to auto-return timers. If the latter is the case they need to tell scripters, and to give me a job for intuiting such a sneaky, backstabbing trick from such a limited dataset.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
08-29-2004 21:35
Moleculor,

One thing I did not see in your evidence that I am curious about is - did you take just a normal object, not one rezzed by script and place it on one of these plots of land and test the return times - or were all the tests purely from script rezzed objects?
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Cristiano


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Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
08-30-2004 02:25
Just script rezzed, of course.
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</sarcasm>
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
08-30-2004 07:26
From: someone
Originally posted by Moleculor Satyr
Just script rezzed, of course.


So it proves only that the timer is "broken" for script rezzed objects, not player rezzed ones. I would imagine this is probably by design, to handle things that don't die on their own. It doesn't sound like some big nefarious plot by LL, only a design decision and perhaps a safety mechanism to treat scripted rezed objects differently.
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Cristiano


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Camille Serpentine
Eater of the Dead
Join date: 6 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,236
08-30-2004 08:30
Alot of people allow items for a certain amount of time on their land but no scripts. Could that be the problem?
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Wraith Jensen
I can walk thru walls....
Join date: 8 Aug 2004
Posts: 130
08-30-2004 09:08
Also, have you checked to see whether this was "no rez" land? I'm wondering if that affects anything.

And, out of curiousity, why rez new objects instead of simply moving one object across the sims?
Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
08-30-2004 12:48
I ran into this frustrating problem too. I tried to make a fleet of self-piloting tour vehicles for newbies, but in the fraction of a second they were over Linden land they were returned.

I wish the auto-return timers timed how long an object is actually *over* the land. I don't know how it's timed now, but statistically speaking, I find it suspicious that all of my objects arrived over those auto-return parcels *exactly* at the moment the auto-return timer was executing.

This simply sounds like auto-return doesn't work in the expected way. For example, on land with a 5 minute timer, I would expect it to either:

* Return objects that have remained on the land for 5 minutes unattended, OR

* Return unattended objects every 5 minutes.

Neither one of these appears to be the case. It seems like the arrival of a prim actually triggers the auto-return.
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Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
08-30-2004 15:30
From: someone
Originally posted by Cristiano Midnight
So it proves only that the timer is "broken" for script rezzed objects, not player rezzed ones. I would imagine this is probably by design, to handle things that don't die on their own. It doesn't sound like some big nefarious plot by LL, only a design decision and perhaps a safety mechanism to treat scripted rezed objects differently.


If sitting down crashed people who had an attachment on their left foot, would you say it was any less of a bug? If such a thing IS a 'design feature', don't you think the Lindens need to tell us about something that would actually cause an object to be returned a SECOND into a thirty HOUR long timer?

From: someone
Originally posted by Camille Serpentine
Alot of people allow items for a certain amount of time on their land but no scripts. Could that be the problem?


From: someone
Originally posted by Wraith Jensen
Also, have you checked to see whether this was "no rez" land? I'm wondering if that affects anything.

And, out of curiousity, why rez new objects instead of simply moving one object across the sims?


I thought both of you might be on to something, so I checked around. The last plot listed (I didn't go to -every- plot) allowed both building and scripting, and was set to a 1 minute return timer. So I'm betting it doesn't matter.

As far as moving a single object around the entire grid, the idea did occur to me, and I'm looking into that possibility, but since they actually sell books on the subject of moving one object around a grid like this, the task is not easy at all. The self replication idea allowed for coverage of all connected sims, and automatic addition of new sims to the map without complicated code. Moving one object around and managing to cover the entire grid is going to require a great deal more scripting, and could quite possibly prove to be impossible.

From: someone
Originally posted by Cubey Terra
I ran into this frustrating problem too. I tried to make a fleet of self-piloting tour vehicles for newbies, but in the fraction of a second they were over Linden land they were returned.

I wish the auto-return timers timed how long an object is actually *over* the land. I don't know how it's timed now, but statistically speaking, I find it suspicious that all of my objects arrived over those auto-return parcels *exactly* at the moment the auto-return timer was executing.


*nodnod* That was my other thought, and what I first mentioned to the Lindens back when I bug reported this last week. I've since updated the bug report twice, and haven't recieved any answer from them yet. If they don't respond a few days after the release of 1.5 (and 1.5 hasn't fixed this), I'll start bugging them in game.
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Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
08-30-2004 22:09
Sorry for the double post, but I just saw something else odd.

There was a physical plywood cube outside my plot of land. It was pretty embedded in a trench in the land, and it was too massive for me flying into the object to dislodge it. On top of that, the plot was set to damage enabled, and I didn't want to fling myself head first into a physical prim.

It was pretty obvious it didn't belong there, so I decided to try to clean up the sim a bit. I couldn't move it myself, so I created a pushscript.

I didn't have a lot of experience with push scripts (why the bloody hell did I need to get a push of 20000 to get it to budge when it was only 5-10 meters away?!), but eventually I got it moving. I had one of two choices, either up the hill to my plot of land, which I knew was set to auto-return objects after 60 minutes, and I could just hit the Return button if it was on my plot, or down the hill, around obstacles, and onto Linden waterways.

I chose up the hill. Within five SECONDS of this object rolling onto my plot (as well as a cube can roll up a hill), POOF, it disappeared.

Which tells me it was returned.

It doesn't seem like it's just script rezzed objects, unless that cube was rezzed by a script (which I doubt), so it has to be something else.
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Carnildo Greenacre
Flight Engineer
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,044
08-30-2004 23:09
From: someone
Originally posted by Cubey Terra
I wish the auto-return timers timed how long an object is actually *over* the land. I don't know how it's timed now, but statistically speaking, I find it suspicious that all of my objects arrived over those auto-return parcels *exactly* at the moment the auto-return timer was executing.

This simply sounds like auto-return doesn't work in the expected way. For example, on land with a 5 minute timer, I would expect it to either:

* Return objects that have remained on the land for 5 minutes unattended, OR

* Return unattended objects every 5 minutes.

Neither one of these appears to be the case. It seems like the arrival of a prim actually triggers the auto-return.


I did some testing of auto-return back when it first came out. Some of my observations:

1) For objects rezzed on auto-return land and not modified, they are returned after a minimum of the auto-return interval has elapsed. For example, with a five-minute interval, nothing was returned in less than five minutes.

2) For objects rezzed off the land and edited onto auto-return land, the timer starts ticking as soon as the object enters the auto-return land

3) For vehicles rezzed off the land and driven onto auto-return land, the timer starts ticking as soon as the vehicle enters the land. The vehicle will be returned any time the following conditions are true: there is no avatar on the vehicle, the vehicle is still over the auto-return land, and the timer has expired.

4) Objects with temporary-on-rez set seem to follow different rules. I haven't worked out any of them yet.
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Cory Linden
Linden Lab Employee
Join date: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 173
08-31-2004 07:10
OK, bug noted . . . I have some ideas and will dig into the code during slow times in the release process. *Thank you* for the specifics on the timing, as that will hopefully make some of it obvious.

What's probably going on is that the wrong timer is getting checked inside the parcel cleanup callback, so a little digging should expose the problem.

Will post more as I find more.
Cory Linden
Linden Lab Employee
Join date: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 173
08-31-2004 08:20
Found the problem with objects rezzed somewhere else getting stomped as soon as they wandered onto a parcel. Wrong @)(*)@&#-ing timer being used. Fixed, but needs testing. Should be in one of the early 1.5.* patches.

Again, thanks for the really solid data as that made it obvious what was going on.
Wraith Jensen
I can walk thru walls....
Join date: 8 Aug 2004
Posts: 130
wheeeeee
08-31-2004 09:41
Cory Rocks!

And I'm not talking "Hansen" kind of rocking, either.. I'm talking "Mark Walberg in Rock Star" ROCK AND ROLL rocking!!

Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
08-31-2004 10:46
From: someone
Originally posted by Cory Linden
Found the problem with objects rezzed somewhere else getting stomped as soon as they wandered onto a parcel. Wrong @)(*)@&#-ing timer being used. Fixed, but needs testing. Should be in one of the early 1.5.* patches.

Again, thanks for the really solid data as that made it obvious what was going on.


To quote Merwan... "Excellent!"

Maybe I'll make my touring vehicles after all :)
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C U B E Y · T E R R A
planes · helicopters · blimps · balloons · skydiving · submarines
Available at Abbotts Aerodrome and XstreetSL.com
Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
08-31-2004 14:31
OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! *spazzes* *dies*
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Carnildo Greenacre
Flight Engineer
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,044
09-01-2004 00:01
From: someone
Originally posted by Cory Linden
Found the problem with objects rezzed somewhere else getting stomped as soon as they wandered onto a parcel. Wrong @)(*)@&#-ing timer being used. Fixed, but needs testing. Should be in one of the early 1.5.* patches.

Again, thanks for the really solid data as that made it obvious what was going on.


Thanks for keeping us updated! :)
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Psyra Extraordinaire
Corra Nacunda Chieftain
Join date: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,533
Instant Return
09-01-2004 07:06
Incedentally... I was having the same problem at the Argent Sandbox with immediate item returns. But it only affected items that I'd drop from my inventory onto there. I could still BUILD items without a hitch there. Rez plain prims, link them, work with them, I spent 2 hours making some pieces from about 33 prims apiece. Without any problems. While at the same time, if I dropped something from my inv to link in, It'd get returned.

Perhaps somehow it's distinguishing a difference between prims that are created on the plot with those that are carried in? Well, grasping at straws, but yanevaknow.

-Psyra-

*Edit* Just looked back and saw Cory Linden's post. Me shut up now. ^_^
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Visit me in-world at the Avaria sims, in Grendel's Children! ^^
Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
Re: Instant Return
09-01-2004 07:36
From: someone
Originally posted by Psyra Extraordinaire
Incedentally... I was having the same problem at the Argent Sandbox with immediate item returns. But it only affected items that I'd drop from my inventory onto there. I could still BUILD items without a hitch there. Rez plain prims, link them, work with them, I spent 2 hours making some pieces from about 33 prims apiece. Without any problems. While at the same time, if I dropped something from my inv to link in, It'd get returned.

Perhaps somehow it's distinguishing a difference between prims that are created on the plot with those that are carried in? Well, grasping at straws, but yanevaknow.

-Psyra-

*Edit* Just looked back and saw Cory Linden's post. Me shut up now. ^_^


Uhhhhhh... errm... uhm....

Sounds like a completely different bug. Report it. If it's reproduceable even now, report it on the land it can be reproduced on. Offer to provide examples, if they can't reproduce it.
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Psyra Extraordinaire
Corra Nacunda Chieftain
Join date: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,533
Re: Re: Instant Return
09-01-2004 12:08
From: someone
Originally posted by Moleculor Satyr
Sounds like a completely different bug. Report it. If it's reproduceable even now, report it on the land it can be reproduced on. Offer to provide examples, if they can't reproduce it.


It is? Hmm.... well, will see when I get home. I'm stuck at work for about 3.5 hours more. When I get home I'll play around with it again, see if it does its EVIL again. If so, yeah, will report.

For now, I can only slave away at the computer screen. And sneak off every so often to read messages here. Hee. :>
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E-Mail Psyra at psyralbakor_at_yahoo_dot_com, Visit my Webpage at www.psyra.ca :)

Visit me in-world at the Avaria sims, in Grendel's Children! ^^
Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
09-01-2004 17:59
Yes, definitely sounds like a different bug, if I'm hearing you correctly. Unless the sandbox you were working in was divided into many small parcels, and you just happened to be positioned wrong.

The bug was being tripped when an object was created on one parcel, and then moved to another. If the objects that are being returned to you are never moved, it's a different bug.
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Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
09-01-2004 20:20
Whoops. I take it back. I just read the changelog. Yours is the same bug. I didn't realize that inventory objects were affected by this too, since I'd never had an inventory object returned to me by the bug.
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Carnildo Greenacre
Flight Engineer
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,044
09-02-2004 23:41
My thanks! This seems to have eliminated the flood of firebirds I was having returned to me every day; now I can turn "IM to email" back on.
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Moleculor Satyr
Fireflies!
Join date: 5 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,650
09-03-2004 06:44
And I've managed (after a bug fix) to cover 30% of the entire grid with my objects for a few minutes. With tweaks, I should be able to reach the whole thing! Woo!
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