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Two Issues with 0.7.0

Zanlew Wu
Registered User
Join date: 5 Feb 2003
Posts: 112
05-09-2003 09:46
Ok, so let's get to the issues first:

1) Window position not saved. I think it's great that you guys now allow to set windowed without having to reboot like in the 0.6.x and earlier clients. However now every time I start the 0.7.0 client, it forgets its last POSITION. Size it remembers, but not position. I like it to appear on the right, yet it always appears on the left (top left corner). Need to fix that. Annoying, but it should be a relatively simple fix.

2) Graphics Slider Remove. In the 0.6.x and earlier versions, there were two sliders. I forget what they were called, but there was the upper one and the lower one. Personally, I never really understood the difference between the two sliders, so I can somewhat understand why you removed one. My guess is that you locked one into a certain value and removed the slider for it.

Here is the problem. I am an ATI user (9700 Pro). Oh, and I know there are "issues" with ATI that will be fixed with Catalyst 3.3, but hear me out on this one, please.

With the 0.6.x and earlier versions, in order for me to see the world "normally", I would have to set the TOP slider to 0. The lower slider could be whatever I wanted, but that top slider had to be zero. Anything above zero, and the textures were all wrong and colored wrong and lit wrong.

The down side to that is that things like the world map and textures would never come into CLEAR focus--meaning I could see them, but they would always be fuzzy. If I wanted/needed to see something clearly, I had to set that top slider to max. When I did, I could see whatever it was, but from that point on, the textures were all gone to heck in a handbasket. Even setting that top slider back to 0 would not always correct the problem. The only way to correct sometimes was to set the slider back to zero, quit, and log back in.

Now, that top slider seems to be gone. And now I can see all the textures and whatnot clearly, so I can only presume that the slider value was programmatically forced to it's max value (or even any value above 0) and then removed so users could not alter the setting.

Now I realize this only affects ATI users, and I also realize that Catalyst 3.3 should fix this problem (as well as several others). The bad news is that until 3.3 comes out, we are now stuck with this really ugly view of the world, where textures are dark, wrong, and shift as you get closer/move farther away. Also Avatars are rendered improperly too. I've sent screen shots into the Report Bug tool IW to demonstrate what they look like through my "ATI eyes". Unfortunately, with the state things are now forced to be in, the world is virtually unplayable for me. Well, let me restate that: I cannot build much since I cannot rely on what I am seeing in terms of textures, and most of my IW time is spent building, therefore the world is unplayable. You have (not intentionally, I am sure) doomed us ATI users to ugliness where not previously existed until ATI gets 3.3 out (I just checked this very moment as I am writing this and they are still only putting out 3.2).

Yes, 3.3 should be out any time now, but how long is "any time now"? In the software world, that's not even a measurable unit of time. It's like a "forever && whenever" kind of deal. I am willing to be patient with ATI for a week or so (one month after the 3.2 was posted would be April 13th). But after that, the world is going to be really difficult to be apart of. Is there any way you can put that second slider back in to make my dreary ATI existing fuzzy but livable?

A LL response to this post would be most appreciated. :)
_____________________
In theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not.
Zanlew Wu
Registered User
Join date: 5 Feb 2003
Posts: 112
05-12-2003 09:10
No comments from LL?
_____________________
In theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not.
Devyn Grimm
the Hermit
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 270
05-12-2003 10:21
Although its not ideal, there is a solution to the ATI graphics / texture corruption problem (which I have encountered as well - using a Radeon 9700 pro). I downgraded my drivers to Catalyst 3.1 and that solved the problem. There are still a couple of visual bugs (like the fog shifting off and on).. but at least the models and textures are stable and displaying correctly (at all detail settings).

Its only a temporary solution though - and most people probably aren't too happy to downgrade their drivers (if other games are working fine with them.) Hopefully 3.3 will be out soon...
Zanlew Wu
Registered User
Join date: 5 Feb 2003
Posts: 112
05-13-2003 08:19
Ya know...the more I think about that as an option, the less appealing it is. Especially when I think about all the other MODERN games that seem to have no such issues whatsoever with the ATI card. Games like The Sims Online which has LOTS of textures...or StarWars Galaxies, which is a known HUGE envelope pusher in terms of video card requirements even to play the game. I have a long, long list of other games which show no such issues as I get with SL.

For that matter, if I played SL with that second slider all the way turned off, even SL was not an issue. Please do not get me wrong, I am not threatening to leave or anything childish like that. I just do not understand why the issue even exists "for ATI users only" when it doesn't exist for anyone else. Nor do I understand why the second slider had to go or could not be put back.

Looking at it logically from the outside (of LL/SL), I have a bunch of games (old and very new alike) that work just fine with my video card and current version of my drivers, and one world (SL) that used to work with an older version of the client and now does not with a newer client. Regardless of whether ATI's 3.3 Catalyst drivers "fix" the problem or not, the only logical conclusion I can draw is that the problem is with SL and not with my video card or my drivers.

In light of that, why should I downgrade my video drivers--potentially "breaking" some of the other games that presently work on my system--for a world that USED TO WORK (albeit a bit fuzzy) and now does not due to a programming change on the developers part?

Anyway, that is the reason why I personally cannot justify downgrading drivers.

Note to LL: I am not trying to be a whiner here. I am not complaining per se. I accept what is. I have said it before, and it is worth repeating here again: I have tremendous admiration and respect for what you have created. I continue to ask questions like these because it is my nature to ask "Why?" until I understand. Doesn't mean I always get to that point of understanding, but I just have to ask.
_____________________
In theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not.
Jake Cellardoor
CHM builder
Join date: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 528
05-13-2003 10:20
Regarding responses for LL, it's worth remembering that the E3 conference is this week. They're probably too busy to monitor the forum closely.
Ama Omega
Lost Wanderer
Join date: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 1,770
05-13-2003 10:48
Just a note: Ati players are not the only ones asked to roll back drivers. Nvidia players get better performance on older drivers (41.09 vs 43.x), especially on less than brand new cards.

Another note: SL is not the only game having trouble with the current incarnation of the ATI drivers. At elast a couple other beta games (ie games in the same generation as SL :p) are also having problems.

But yes, it is annoying.
Mark Busch
DarkLife Developer
Join date: 8 Apr 2003
Posts: 442
05-13-2003 17:42
I've had an ATI too and those problems too.
The two sliders were:

-Texture quality
-Object detail

If you can't guess from the names what they mean:

Texture quality controls the quality of the textures :P In case you forgot (if you build you SHOULD REALLY know this) textures are the images on the objects. If you set the quality low all the textures are little blurred, and on some cards it will speed up a little if you set it down. If you see weird textures with ATI you should use the 3.1 driver.

Object detail is ofcourse the detail you see on objects (I noticed this can really improve the speed if set low)
For example if you make a cylinder this determines how many sides it has (like lowest is 6 sides highest 32 sides, but I never counted it)

I wouldn't change the object detail from the default because a lot of builders put boxes on each side of a cylinder (in default object detail). If the number of sides you see on a cylinder is diffrent from default, then the building could look weird at that part on your PC.