Second Life Forums Archive

Alek Wu

LEFT-HANDED ELF!

Join date: 16 Apr 2003

Posts: 237

08-01-2003 09:43

Apparently sometime between me logging to go to Ama's house to help him clean his room and logging in at his house to check in and chat, I lost 10k+. When I logged in I had $27. My gifts given under my accounts received said -$10225.

Has anyone heard of something like this? I'm trying to track my money down. I sent a bug report... and I really hope I can find it.

Oh Happy Friday to everyone too. (:

Madox Kobayashi

Madox Labs R&D

Join date: 28 Jun 2003

Posts: 402

08-01-2003 09:50

Very ouch, baby!
Hope you find out whats up

_____________________

Madox Kobayashi

James Miller

Village Idiot

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,500

08-01-2003 10:20

Alek, are you the one who gives out money at the Well in darkwood? Someone at the welcome area told me he won $10,000 from the Well!

Alek Wu

LEFT-HANDED ELF!

Join date: 16 Apr 2003

Posts: 237

08-01-2003 10:24

Ama does the well... I have no part in that. (8

James Miller

Village Idiot

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,500

08-01-2003 10:26

Well, there goes that theory. Good luck finding out what the problem is!

Ama Omega

Lost Wanderer

Join date: 11 Dec 2002

Posts: 1,770

08-01-2003 10:27

If someone won 10k yesterday let me know, because I didn't give out 10k.

Ama Omega

Lost Wanderer

Join date: 11 Dec 2002

Posts: 1,770

08-01-2003 12:01

This is a LINDEN BUG, not a bug in the game script. And here is the exact bug:

A trial user has play money - they can't give it away. money() events are still triggered, but no money is given!

However, llGiveMoney() will still give money to trial users!!

The conflict: Games that accept a bet range. How these work is that the money is always collected, if the bet is out of range then the money is paid back.

Since the money event was triggered with the amount they attempted to pay, the game looks at it and if it is out of range they pay that amount back!

So a person goes and pays $1, out of range for the $2 - $50 table. They get three messages (paraphrased):

Trial money is play money
Your bet is out of range
Soandso give you $x

The unsuspecting person payed $1, didn't lose that dollar but got a dollar back. Did this a few times then tried a higher number, 100 ... 1,000. Until they had emptied the account of the game owner (Alek Wu).

James tells me he was there when this person tried to tell a linden that it he found a bug and got $10k (I think he also demanded a free lifetime membership or something silly). They just assumed since it was in darkwood that he had won $10k off the well and dismissed him.

Please if someone says they find a bug, let them explain. Generally someone can tell the difference between winning a gambling bet and a bug that nets them $10k.

Now here is my prickly part with the lindens. Alek wu got about $5k of her 10k back from the lindens. Why? Cuz the rest had dispersed into the economy. I must know two things: why is Alek Wu punished for a bug in the system, *she* didn't put that money into the economy. And two, how can a trial user put money into the economy?? That restriction is kind of the root of this whole problem! Huh? I mean either they can't and the money should have been there, or they can and she should have collected money each time the person bet.

Oh and for those of you who think this doesn't effect you. The DarkWood well has been shut off until this is sufficiently resolved, because it is subject to the same issues.

Alek Wu

LEFT-HANDED ELF!

Join date: 16 Apr 2003

Posts: 237

08-01-2003 12:06

This bug happened to my Blackjack table... it has a bet range handler just like the well.

The Dore table has been turned off until this bug is fixed. The table in Tan is still working because the trial users are not able to enter that region.

Thanks Ama for figuring this out.

Christopher Omega

Oxymoron

Join date: 28 Mar 2003

Posts: 1,828

08-01-2003 12:11

Ama has several good points:

the main reason for why that linden excuse is exceptionally invalid is because trial user's money cant be dispersed into the economy (assuming they cant give it to anyone, or buy anything). If the system did this, then the system and griefer should pay for it, not the victim of the system and griefer.

Dont make me poke James Miller and tell him about this! No doubt he'll protest, and you all know how that goes.

Good luck to you Ama and Alek, I hope this MAJOR problem is solved promptly, and that Alek gets all her money back.

_____________________

October 3rd is the Day Against DRM (Digital Restrictions Management), learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm

James Miller

Village Idiot

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,500

08-01-2003 12:13

I just would like to add that we didn't dismiss him. We tried to get him to explain it, but, he said he paid something in Darkwood and he won money, he just assumed it was a bug. We told him that it was a game, and he went on his merry way. It wasn't until I saw Alek's post that I put the two together.

Alek Wu

LEFT-HANDED ELF!

Join date: 16 Apr 2003

Posts: 237

08-01-2003 12:18

If he didn't come forward, I might still be mystified... I wish I had a feature where I could see who I gave gifts to, similar to the list of who gave me gifts. I assumed it was a bug instead of a play on my game because I couldn't see any games played in the history (someone paying me money).

Bob Brightwillow

Technologist

Join date: 7 Feb 2003

Posts: 110

08-01-2003 12:38

We need accountable accounting. How long have we been demanding this?

Misnomer Jones

3 is the magic number

Join date: 27 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,800

08-01-2003 13:15

OMG this is happening to me. I have scripted boxes to sell items. I keep getting messages I paid people!!!!!!!!

THATS WHY!

PLEASE FIX THIS!

_____________________

James Miller

Village Idiot

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 1,500

08-01-2003 13:30

Not just fix it, refund the money!

Wednesday Grimm

Ex Libris

Join date: 9 Jan 2003

Posts: 934

08-01-2003 13:33

Apparently, looking at email I am getting from my scripts, I am also getting bled dry RIGHT NOW, and I won't be on to confirm this or complain until late tonight or sometime tomorrow, by which time all my money will have (I guess) "dispersed in to the economy"

Wheee.

_____________________

Sarcasm meter:
0 |-----------------------*-| 10
Rating: Awww Jeeze!

Daniel Linden

Contains Multitudes

Join date: 23 Apr 2003

Posts: 103

08-01-2003 13:50

A fix is being implemented -- more details will be coming shortly.

In the meantime, contact [email]support@secondlife.com[/email] with the details of your losses -- where, what, how much -- and we'll check our notes and make sure that you get your money back.

Alek Wu

LEFT-HANDED ELF!

Join date: 16 Apr 2003

Posts: 237

08-01-2003 17:45

Thank you immensely for your help, Daniel. I'm glad the trial users were limited to the four sims... I can only imagine the havok this would have caused if they had access to the entire world.

Ama Omega

Lost Wanderer

Join date: 11 Dec 2002

Posts: 1,770

08-01-2003 17:53

Thanks for the quick response and helpful work. We really appreciate it. Thanks.

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

10k+... gone?!

10k+... gone?!
Alek Wu LEFT-HANDED ELF! Join date: 16 Apr 2003 Posts: 237	08-01-2003 09:43 Apparently sometime between me logging to go to Ama's house to help him clean his room and logging in at his house to check in and chat, I lost 10k+. When I logged in I had $27. My gifts given under my accounts received said -$10225. Has anyone heard of something like this? I'm trying to track my money down. I sent a bug report... and I really hope I can find it. Oh Happy Friday to everyone too. (:
Madox Kobayashi Madox Labs R&D Join date: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 402	08-01-2003 09:50 Very ouch, baby! Hope you find out whats up _____________________ Madox Kobayashi
James Miller Village Idiot Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,500	08-01-2003 10:20 Alek, are you the one who gives out money at the Well in darkwood? Someone at the welcome area told me he won $10,000 from the Well!
Alek Wu LEFT-HANDED ELF! Join date: 16 Apr 2003 Posts: 237	08-01-2003 10:24 Ama does the well... I have no part in that. (8
James Miller Village Idiot Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,500	08-01-2003 10:26 Well, there goes that theory. Good luck finding out what the problem is!
Ama Omega Lost Wanderer Join date: 11 Dec 2002 Posts: 1,770	08-01-2003 10:27 If someone won 10k yesterday let me know, because I didn't give out 10k.
Ama Omega Lost Wanderer Join date: 11 Dec 2002 Posts: 1,770	08-01-2003 12:01 This is a LINDEN BUG, not a bug in the game script. And here is the exact bug: A trial user has play money - they can't give it away. money() events are still triggered, but no money is given! However, llGiveMoney() will still give money to trial users!! The conflict: Games that accept a bet range. How these work is that the money is always collected, if the bet is out of range then the money is paid back. Since the money event was triggered with the amount they attempted to pay, the game looks at it and if it is out of range they pay that amount back! So a person goes and pays $1, out of range for the $2 - $50 table. They get three messages (paraphrased): Trial money is play money Your bet is out of range Soandso give you $x The unsuspecting person payed $1, didn't lose that dollar but got a dollar back. Did this a few times then tried a higher number, 100 ... 1,000. Until they had emptied the account of the game owner (Alek Wu). James tells me he was there when this person tried to tell a linden that it he found a bug and got $10k (I think he also demanded a free lifetime membership or something silly). They just assumed since it was in darkwood that he had won $10k off the well and dismissed him. Please if someone says they find a bug, let them explain. Generally someone can tell the difference between winning a gambling bet and a bug that nets them $10k. Now here is my prickly part with the lindens. Alek wu got about $5k of her 10k back from the lindens. Why? Cuz the rest had dispersed into the economy. I must know two things: why is Alek Wu punished for a bug in the system, she didn't put that money into the economy. And two, how can a trial user put money into the economy?? That restriction is kind of the root of this whole problem! Huh? I mean either they can't and the money should have been there, or they can and she should have collected money each time the person bet. Oh and for those of you who think this doesn't effect you. The DarkWood well has been shut off until this is sufficiently resolved, because it is subject to the same issues.
Alek Wu LEFT-HANDED ELF! Join date: 16 Apr 2003 Posts: 237	08-01-2003 12:06 This bug happened to my Blackjack table... it has a bet range handler just like the well. The Dore table has been turned off until this bug is fixed. The table in Tan is still working because the trial users are not able to enter that region. Thanks Ama for figuring this out.
Christopher Omega Oxymoron Join date: 28 Mar 2003 Posts: 1,828	08-01-2003 12:11 Ama has several good points: the main reason for why that linden excuse is exceptionally invalid is because trial user's money cant be dispersed into the economy (assuming they cant give it to anyone, or buy anything). If the system did this, then the system and griefer should pay for it, not the victim of the system and griefer. Dont make me poke James Miller and tell him about this! No doubt he'll protest, and you all know how that goes. Good luck to you Ama and Alek, I hope this MAJOR problem is solved promptly, and that Alek gets all her money back. _____________________ October 3rd is the Day Against DRM (Digital Restrictions Management), learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm
James Miller Village Idiot Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,500	08-01-2003 12:13 I just would like to add that we didn't dismiss him. We tried to get him to explain it, but, he said he paid something in Darkwood and he won money, he just assumed it was a bug. We told him that it was a game, and he went on his merry way. It wasn't until I saw Alek's post that I put the two together.
Alek Wu LEFT-HANDED ELF! Join date: 16 Apr 2003 Posts: 237	08-01-2003 12:18 If he didn't come forward, I might still be mystified... I wish I had a feature where I could see who I gave gifts to, similar to the list of who gave me gifts. I assumed it was a bug instead of a play on my game because I couldn't see any games played in the history (someone paying me money).
Bob Brightwillow Technologist Join date: 7 Feb 2003 Posts: 110	08-01-2003 12:38 We need accountable accounting. How long have we been demanding this?
Misnomer Jones 3 is the magic number Join date: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,800	08-01-2003 13:15 OMG this is happening to me. I have scripted boxes to sell items. I keep getting messages I paid people!!!!!!!! THATS WHY! PLEASE FIX THIS! _____________________
James Miller Village Idiot Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 1,500	08-01-2003 13:30 Not just fix it, refund the money!
Wednesday Grimm Ex Libris Join date: 9 Jan 2003 Posts: 934	08-01-2003 13:33 Apparently, looking at email I am getting from my scripts, I am also getting bled dry RIGHT NOW, and I won't be on to confirm this or complain until late tonight or sometime tomorrow, by which time all my money will have (I guess) "dispersed in to the economy" Wheee. _____________________ Sarcasm meter: *0 \|------------------------\| 10** Rating: Awww Jeeze!
Daniel Linden Contains Multitudes Join date: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 103	08-01-2003 13:50 A fix is being implemented -- more details will be coming shortly. In the meantime, contact [email]support@secondlife.com[/email] with the details of your losses -- where, what, how much -- and we'll check our notes and make sure that you get your money back.
Alek Wu LEFT-HANDED ELF! Join date: 16 Apr 2003 Posts: 237	08-01-2003 17:45 Thank you immensely for your help, Daniel. I'm glad the trial users were limited to the four sims... I can only imagine the havok this would have caused if they had access to the entire world.
Ama Omega Lost Wanderer Join date: 11 Dec 2002 Posts: 1,770	08-01-2003 17:53 Thanks for the quick response and helpful work. We really appreciate it. Thanks.