Educational events should have completely different rules.

I am doing an educational event that helps new and older residents use their inventory in a more efficient manner but i am finding road blocks and other issues making it less desirable to host such an event. I understand LL pays me to hold these events, but there are problems i would love to air.

Issue 1 is.. I can only list one class per day. I know many people would like to attend but the one hour it is held isn't conforming to their schedule. If I am willing to host this class more than once a day LL should support that and provide any assistance possible to make it happen. I know some will say it's the $500L I get for an event that makes me do this. Nothing could be farther from the truth, $500L = $2us. It's nothing really, just an incentive to get people to host classes, yet we are limited to one class per day. If you search the calander for classes you might find one or two, so apparently the incentive isn't enough. I'm not saying pay more to the hosts, I'm saying let them host as many classes as they are willing to hold, and pay them for each one.. which brings me to my next issue..

Issue 2 is.. I spend a lot of time preparing for a class and setting aside my personal time to be avaliable on site to make it work, i get there early and stay late for any who are early or late comers. After waiting 30 minutes before class time, waiting the hour class is on, and waiting at least another half hour for those who may have missed the time.. I may get no takers on that class(bad timing or whatever reason). Nontheless, i was at the class ready to teach for over 2 hours... Guess what, if at least 5 people don't attend LL refuses to support the event. Why do they care if people actually attent a class? Isn't the idea to make classes avaliable, not demand the teacher drag at least 5 people over to take the class? It's my opinion LL shouldn't count the attendees, they should make sure the class is open and the instructor is on site ready to help and teach.

To wrap it up in a nutshell.. I think anyone willing to teach a class should be unrestricted in the number of events he/she is willing to hold in a given day(some would-be teachers are only avaliable on the weekend) and support them by paying them $500L($2us) per 1 hour class no matter how many they want to hold. Secondly, I think LL shouldn't care how many attendees there are at a class, rather LL should only verify the class was held and a teacher was on site. Whatever LL is doing to promote the idea of classes in SL isn't working and needs to be reconsidered.

A side note for those of us who want the learning to continue even after classes are over. I put up a notecard distributer so attendees can touch it and get the class on notecard, everything they need is avaliable on site(I use Avies as a tool to teach inventory control and changing your look). So the class I teach is avaliable 24/7 even if I'm not online. I placed a visitor counter on site and as the attendee to buy the AV for $1L so i know who is learning from my efforts. If you do the same at some point we can see self service classes all over SL.. yay!!! lol. Anyhow, just my thoughts on these issues, any ideas that might further the goal of learning in SL would be great. If any of you have ideas I'd love to hear them. TY for wading thru my badly worded thread, hope I made it clear enough.

I attended one of your classes, and found that the class consisted of a brief notecard giving very little information, and an opportunity to buy avatars and freebies. It never occurred to me that you were actually getting Linden support for that "class" too. If that is the kind of educational event that Linden is funding now, I think we need higher standards. And selling freebies is not cool, even if is is just for $1, and even if you claim you are only selling your effort for assembling them in a convenient location. If LL is giving you L$500 to host a class, it should not be a thinly veiled ploy to sell your wares to naive newbies.

Well this gentleman certainly educated me.

He taught me how to buy a plot of land on a sim and to fill it with hundreds of freebies and other peoples work in the guise of a yard sale.

He then sets the land for sale

Sim lagged out - people on the sim have to buy him out to save their own businesses.

Oddly enough we didnt hear from him again once we had called a Linden & various folks who's creations he was selling.

His one reply when informed we were bringing the owners & a Linden was 'smarter people than you and Lindens have tried to stop me'

SCAMMER - stay well clear.

If you attended I hope you learned something, if the $1L was too much for you to pay to allow me the ability to know you were learning, please im me and i'll return your $1L times 10. I refund all the time, and when an attendee tells me they don't have the L i give them at least 10L. If you think $1L is too much then please don't buy any of the things i set out for those who would rather pay $1L than to search SL for hours to find them. Even if you don't buy any of the $1L items i'll still give you $10L because you probably need it more than I do. Anyhow, I don't want to start a flame, i'm hoping this thread will bring out the best in SL.

Ah yes, Sox I remember. The guy who isisted i not set out pose balls on my land, complained about a yard sale. He had his gf buy my land to force me to move, the lindens never said a word. Sox, i left because your gf bought my land and banned me. Just for your info, I'm allowed to set out anything I wish on my land up to the prim limit(I was using 200 prim out of almost 600 avaliable, if that was lagging you it's not my fault, talk to the lindens about your lag issues. Please try to stick to the purpose of the tread rather that flaming. ty Sox

1. I wasnt flaming you I was warning people about you.

2. She's not my girlfriend she's my wife.

3. I'm well AWARE you were not violating the TOS.

4. You WERE selling freebies & other people's creation to which you had no right.

I dont accuse without proof so if you'd like to take it further we could always talk to the makers of all the items you rip off.

We could also talk to those same makers about how you've pulled this same scam all over second life.

Just because you scam within the boundries of the TOS does not make it RIGHT.

Ok Sox, my last reply to you, this isn't really for you anyhow, but for those who might think you have a clue. None of the creators of the things i sell complained. Everything i sell is mine to sell or is a freebie. All freeebies are marked $1L and a huge sign is posted explaining these freebies are free and can be found elsewhere should the $1L be an issue(most people consider $1L so little as to be free.) Everything else on my land is mine to sell, some are store bought items that can't be copied, some are copiable items i bought the right to resell.

You have destroyed this thread with your whining, and you have turned it into your flame out of your anger. As i look thru the other forums i see this is common for you, you seem gto be bitter with almost everyone in these forums. I truely hope LL removes your off topic posts. Anymore posts from youoff the topic of eductional events will be ignored by me.

I attended this class and I was very pleased. I learned so much. Now I can use folders correctly, change my look instantly and unpack boxes i have been carrying around for some time. The notecard made it very clear. Kevn was there answering questions and assisting other people who were struggling. I accidently bought an item i didn't mean to buy and was promptly refunded plus an extra $50 for my trouble. This is the kind of class people need. If these complainers don't like it why not do your own classes and do a better job. My guess is these people don't offer classes. I agree with you Kevn that the rules governing classes should be different. Your ideas seem very reasonable to me.

O0o0o0o0o Look - I've got an alt too Kevn but I dont need it to justify anything

Kevn, I applaud your efforts.

I don't know the merits of all these criticisms about your land, and lagging, and so on, but I wouldn't let these people intimidate you without a fight.

It's absolutely fine to re-sell an item that has "resell/give away" check off on it. If the creator doesn't want it resold, then he leaves the item unchecked.

The second-hand market is a legitimate and much-needed part of the SL economy.

You face some serious obstacles from a small minority of anti-business and anti-free market oldbies/midies but don't let it faze you, just keep on doing what you're doing.

I'm in shock to discover that the event rules supposedly let you have only one class a day. Huh??? No wonder there's no choice but Tringo!

Are you saying they only *pay* you for one a day? Well, who knows, that is debatable, but surely you can put the class on 5 times by preparing for it once, then coming on up to 5 times -- they say up to 5 times an event now under new regulations.

I agree that if the Lindens were serious about funding classes in their very steep learning curve game, they'd be way more on the ball with this, but I guess they just don't want to bother.

Frankly, I don't even get upset when somebody sells me a Linden freebie. The old items are hard to find sometimes and if someone puts one out to sale that I can find easily, I buy it because they've saved me the trouble.

When the clamouring, self-righteous, indignant, and controlling voices of the anti-business minority dies down a little in this game, business will flourish. We live in hope!

Of course you do. I don't find that surprising at all.


No, it is not. There is no check box to allow "give away" without "resell", thus no way for a creator of free content to enforce that their work not be re-sold when it is intended for free. They must rely on the ethics of others not to re-sell their work. Lindens will remove free content that is being re-sold for even $1. It is not legitimate, and shame on you for encouraging it.



You can have as many events a day as you want. You can only get Linden support ($) for one class each day. You can only schedule 3 (soon 5) events per parcel per day, whether that is the same event repeated or different events. etc etc.



This is not about an anti-business attitude. I am not anti-business; if I were, why would I rent out shop space on my sim? This is about having a class that is receiving Linden support payments actually be a class, and about not abusing the rights of free content creators by re-selling their content. Kevn makes no disclosure in his event listing that paying for anything is required. Here is is listing from Friday 5/13:

http://secondlife.com/events/event.php?id=49159&date=1115992800


He advertises a free class with free content provided. He does not provide that. That is bait-and-switch false advertising and an abuse of the system and of naive users. If anyone is anti-business here, it is Kevn - once burned is twice shy, and the users who attend his "classes" are likely to be skeptical of other SL classes or businesses after they have learned that they've been lured into a waste of time. If you are truly pro-business, you would oppose such unethical behavior, rather than applauding it.

This is so sad. I started this thread to help the cause of learning in sl. It's now turned into a "complain about Kevn for asking people to pay $1L so kevn can track class attendance" even tho no one in any class has ever complained, nor has any Linden complained who visited a class under way. Look, I buy my money from GOM, and have bought a lot of L to spend freely in the last few months. I don't make money on classes, $500L once in a while doesn't cover a small portion of my teir, in fact I spend it in World helping newbies. I upgraded my teir just for these classes, twice. I am here at this time doing nothing but classes and helping new users. That's all I do, no tringo, clubs etc. So if you want to attack me that's fine. Anyone who thinks $1L is bait and switch needs some money, I gave him money but he rejected it. Let's see. 250L to the dollar, that means I get 2.5 L for a penny, so $1L is less than half a penny. I'm ripping people off big time lol. Let's say ten people come, might be a few more or a few less, at ten L im up to 4 pennies. Ok, I see your point now, I'm rich now

It's my hope at some point we can create a system of learning that would be completely self sufficiant, meaning even if I go away the system would continue. I still believe it can happen, but some minds will have to be changed. The idea people can't resell item found free is rediculus. If a newbie buys a free car for $100L is he stuck with it? or can he pass it on to the next guy? in the real world it's buyer beware and that's law. Is the item valuable to the buyer? Well, I bought several freebies early on, and I loved them. I still use many and share them. Anyhow, to my point, to make learning self supported there has to be some type of selling, because donations can't be relied on to support a project forever. There has to be a way to connect a business directly to the learning system so they are on the same land, one supports the whole land. There is the possibilty LL would donate some L and land to those willing to set up such a program. Last night I was at the InfoNet servers in world and I was very impressed with their system, although they have lost most of their staff(from 20 to 3) due to changes made in the recent past. I bought a laptop from them that allows my direct access to their servers. This laptop offers notecards on many subjects such as the history of SL and other topics newbies need or want. It's still new but this could create a wonderful access point. Points set on land with small business would benefit both the business and the newbie seeking help. I would be able to write notecards like my class card and include a box with an AV. Others can write their class on a card and put it into the system as well, even include objects needed for the class. The stores could offer a percentage of their income, or infonet might have their own stores(these are my ideas, not infonets . Mixing learning with business makes sense, it will make a learning system more reliable, not depending on donations to survive through the month. A big part of SL is how to make money, so businesses teaming up with teachers helps everyone. The first question I usually hear is "how do I make money in SL?". If you read this thread and want to help, get with the people at infonet or one of the others. They need our help today, everyone is playing tringo and ignoring the new users lol.

Ok, from what I understand, those who keep yelling that clubs and such need to start charging their attendees are the same ones who complain that someone is asking, not requiring, but asking for an L$1 donation? I don't think L$1 is too much to ask if I am giving my time to help someone out.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said, let along yelled, that clubs need to start charging. Frankly I'm nervous about charging for events. But I have no problem at all with someone charging for an event, as long as that is accurately stated in the event description for the class, and as long as the person has rights to sell the items, material or whatnot that is being charged for.

Hey y'all.

I'm prolly painting a big *$$ bullseye on my forehead, but, that's the way it goes sometimes.

Bottom line is, somehow the controversy over education in Second Life has become the next big thing since land baronage.

There are threads on it, meetings on it, all sorts of fuss and ruckus about it.

That's an awful lot of energy expended jumping up and down and hollerin.


If someone holding a class is violating TOS, abuse report em. Repeatedly. Lindens can't survey classes.

Don't talk about education, hold a class. Or go and support folks who ARE holding classes.

Become a patron of the educational process if you can't teach yourself. Offer space in your sim, or group status to folks. Off to help publicise events that promote education or activies you think are quality pastimes in Second Life. Offer to help the Lindens survey classes. Myabe that would work. Have a form folks have to fill out, survey a class and send it back.

If you really believe in the cause of education, work with the tools you have, until better tools are made available.

How good a class is or isn't is also a matter of opinion. And if someone thinks they can do better than the next guy, go ahead, the more the merrier.

I'm not thrashin anyones opinion here. I'm offering what solutions I can see. I'm tellin who ever wants to listen..Hey this is what works for me, see if it'll work for you.

Peace and brownies folks
Jase