My take on things SL

Ok, I am new here, so maybe I'm not reading things "right".
It seems to me from having just spent the last couple of hours reading the forums that in general people who have basic accounts are looked down upon. Why I am not sure. Something about them being freeloaders that expect everything for nothing is what appears to be the main sentiment (which is a pretty broad and derrogatory generalisation). But they are ok, if they have enough real life wealth that they want to trade in their real life earnings to spend it buying your product to generate you some real life earnings. But if they choose to get the Lindens to buy your products by sitting in camp chairs, attending avie events, etc., then they are parasites.
By the way a basic account starts with $250L which is hardly enough to buy anything. And the freebies that are given away in the freebie boxes do absolutely nothing to take away that awful newbie look. So obviously newbies will want to earn money anyway they can just to look like any normal player.
Everyone should just buy a premium account, buy land and make more products to sell seems to be the general gist of the sentiments expressed. So those that choose not to, because to them SL is a game, or that don't have the real life wealth to do so should what?? Just go away because they are not welcome? According to whom? You, the elitist, snobbish, clique product makers that have been here since the year dot, and/or have enough real life wealth to just buy with your hard-earned money anything you want. Well, the way I see it they (the basic accounts) are as welcome in SL by LL as anyone else.
Then you all bitch about why SL doesn't retain newbies, well here is a clue....you the "I have been here since" make them feel unwelcome. There is liuttle done to encourage new players to stay in SL. Sure there are greeters, mentors, or what-have-you that teach some basics. But where on earth is the encouragement, the effort to be inclusive, the effort to nurture development of marketable skills?
For god sake this is supposed to be a second life, not a repeat of all the ills, bigotry, bias, etc of first life, where the rich get richer, and the poor should shutup and go away.

Now I assume there will be a myriad of personal attacks, beratings and whatever because OMG I dared criticise the elite forum dwellers and their points of view.

I think it's mainly because you don't get an <enter> key unless you have a premium account.

I personally do not look down on anyone. I could care less if someone has been here since day one, owns a ton of land, owns a ton of businesses. People are people to me, there is good and bad in all. I for one am sorry that you feel this way about what you have seen in the forums. Please keep in mind that there is a very small percentage of people in SL who read or even participate in the forums. The only reason I do is because I like to read the new products and other parts of the forums to make my day at work go faster when I have down time.

If people are nice and kind to me then I am the same to them, whether they are new or old. You just haveta find the people who think the same and not worry about the ones who seem to kiss up to the supposed popular people. SL has never been any kind of popularity contest for me, the same goes for me irl. Feel free to IM me anytime I'm on at night, I'll be glad to talk to ya

Well if you do get railed, it certainly won't be because of your attitude. NOW THEN!

There used to be lots of classes on the events list for people to learn how to build, texture, etc. etc. Those have gone by the wayside for the most part for the following reasons (these are ones that I've heard, anyway):

1. I held classes and no one showed up.
   
2. I held classes and no one paid attention.
   
3. I held classes but people wanted more than I could give in terms of time and/or patience.
   

And, again, while many people in SL are very giving in terms of spending time and talent with others, I personally could see how giving classes could burn people out in a very short time. They are after all spending their own time and talent for the benefit of others without asking for anything in return.

Regarding the rich v. poor - everyone here started out with $L250. What you decide to do after that - make things to sell, trade $US for $L so you can spend it inworld - well, that's up to you.

And please please please, if you're going to tell people that they make "broad and derrogatory generalisation(s)", then refrain from making them yourself, as you did at the end of your post, i.e. "You, the elitist, snobbish, clique product makers" and "Then you all bitch" and "OMG I dared criticise the elite forum dwellers".

Gasp, paragraphs please...
-eyes wonder off half way through-
I didn't know people with basic accounts were looked down upon.

Taco, Taco, Taco ...

Amaterasu, keep in mind that the people who post here are the tinyest fraction of people who actually log in to SL regularly. The forums very much (I believe) have their own culture and it doesn't necessarily correspond to what you see in-world.



I often have that thought, too. I don't get up and go to work every day just so I can come home and chase money again in SL. So often it seems that that's all there is to it.

Welcome. We love you. Take it inworld, people are nicer AV to AV. You will find people who will help and nurture.




People are people,
So why should it be?,
You and I should get along so awfully,
People are people,
So why should it be?,
You and I should get along so awfully

So we're different colors,
And we're different creeds,
And different people,
Have different needs,
It's obvious you hate me,
Though I've done nothing wrong,
I've never even met you,
So what could I have done?,
I can't understand,
What makes a man,
Hate another man,
Help me understand,
People are people,
So why should it be?,
You and I should get along so awfully,
People are people,
So why should it be,
You and I should get along so awfully,
Help me understand,
Help me understand

Now you're punching,
And you're kicking,
And you're shouting at me,
And I'm relying on your common decency,
So far it hasn't surfaced,
But I'm sure it exists,
It just takes a while to travel,
From your head to your fist (head to your fists),
I can't understand what makes a man,
Hate another man?,
Help me understand,
People are people,
So why should it be,
You and I should get along so awfully,
People are people,
So why should it be,
You and I should get along so awfully

I can't understand,
What makes a man,
Hate another man?,
Help me understand,
I can't understand,
What makes a man,
Hate another man?,
Help me understand,
I can't understand,
What makes a man,
Hate another man?,
I can't understand (people are people),
What makes a man (why should it be?),
Hate another man?,
Help me understand

Hi Gabe, ZsuZsanna, and Lorelei
Inworld I have met a couple of lovely people that have helped and offered a few pointers. I have also had/overheard more than a few derrogatory comments about new players and/or those on basic accounts.

The reason I even came to the forums was it was suggested as a good place to look for ideas and ways to go about what I personally wish to do in SL. I would like to set-up a business doing custom/artistic photography, and also custom sign-writing/presentation of advertisements. I just have no idea how one goes about doing that in SL or how one gets clientelle, or even what is a fair and reasonable price. Hence the looking in the forums for how others may have.

Just after reading through the topics being discussed, I was pretty much disgusted with the several of the viewpoints that I saw being bandied about by some of the longer term product makers. It was a particular group/type of player I was referring to in my post. And yes, I have had encounters already with some of this ilk in-world too.

To be honest, I think SL has a lot of potential, but it seems from talking to other new players, there is also a strong sense of alienation, and that even if they do wish to contribute, there is little opportunity to learn or break-in to already existing markets. And most of that comes from the attitudes and cliquiness of the aforementioned group/type of player.

Hey.....I understand what you are talking about. I'm not a newbie, but I'm not an old crusty SL'r either. I've been around for 6 months or so.

Here's something I hope you take to heart.....STOP READING THE FORUMS!!!! Go into SL, and travel around and talk to people. Be polite as you approach them. 95% or greater of everyone that I've met in world are really cool people. Stay away from the forums for a few months, then come back and read them.

You will be amazed at how few people that you have met in world will be in the forums. Most of the folks in the forums you'll never meet in world. Forums inherrently invite bitching, complaining and arguements. Not just SL forums.....but all online forums.

Don't get a bad attitude from the forums....go explore and find people to talk to. Sure, you'll find some who are total jerks.....they can't help it...they are that way in RL. But, all in all I think you'll find your in world experiences a lot of fun.

Or....you won't find it fun and you'll leave. But it won't be because of the folks who piss and moan on the forums at least.

Wow!! Well I don't look down on either new people or free accounts, I do get tired of a couple of things.

- why don't you help me learn how to do stuff
- why do I have to work or buy $L if I want to buy stuff and not make it
- why are people who pay to support LL's operating costs pissed off that I don't?

Frankly after I get home from a long day at work and after I do the home & family chores I just want to log on and do whatever I feel like doing. I don't want to teach, mentor, or answer questions. Grab a cold beer, veg... hang with a few friends!!

If I happen to meet someone new and interesting, I'm glad to answer questions, especially if they are polite, cool, and share some similar interests... hmmm, just like RL.

I make stuff. If I see other stuff that is uber cool, I buy it. If I need $L I save up, buy it or do without. hmmm... just like in RL, although in RL I can't do all the cool stuff I can here almost for free.

If someone helps me out, gives me a freebie, helps me wrestle a skill.. then I thank them and am grateful that they spent their irreplacable time doing something for me.

I don't get on the forums and bitch everybody out, but then I don't do that in RL either.

You know what they say about assuming, right?

It makes an ass out of you and uming.

And let me tell you, Uming is WAY pissed about it.

Vance!! well said. nicely put. even tho i look down on all of you from my lofty elitist snobbish been here since the year dot.

i really advocate vance's outlook and observation and advice. don't bother with the forums. come in game and worship me instead. it's way more fun and with less calories.

actually i am concerned about the new people quite a bit. i think that were i to have just found sl recently and just started, i would not last long. i try to help in game where i can, but i don't have any solution or sweeping reform to offer to fix the newbie problems which basically are, invest more money in this place or be poor and wander endlessly.

of course sl has problems. i think like any other business the bottom line is, how many people find more fun here than not, and stay and pay to keep sl going. eventually that is all that will determine if any of us has a second life to lead.

heh

I'm on a basic acct as of now. Why? Because the lag I get from being on satelite is shit. All of my old accounts were prem and owned land . But when the new year comes and I get to move(yay) I will be free from this pathetic excuse for a connection.

Now your post about how older members,I being included just seems a bit wrong. Not all of the older members think that basic accounts are bad. Actually,what I find bad is the constant regs in the WA who just want to bash people. That is something that possibly drives people away.

There is not one thing that drives someone away from a game. And SL has alot of things wrong with it as of now that might have a new person not want to play it.

Honestly,get off the forums and go meet people. You will find alot of nice players and the not so nice ones (just ignore the asshats).

I felt much this way myself when I started in-world (well, more confused and bewildered but a bit alienated, too). SL was/is my first experience with an MMOLS (On-line Society), so I had a bit of a sharp learning curve.

It *does* get easier, and I can assure you that no one is looking down upon folks with basic accounts or those who are not "content creators." I, myself, have only a premium account with 512 m^2, and I have yet to earn a single $L. Every person I have met in SL is very special to me, and I have been blessed with having met tons of the coolest people in either universe.

Welcome to SL, Amaterasu! I wish you the very best of experiences!!

Rule #1 about Forum Club: You don't talk about Forum Club.
Rule #2 about Forum Club: You don't show Forum Club it's errors.

Peace,
Joseph

I have to agree I think you have gotten a bad taste of the forums. The Design and texture, buiilding and scripting forums are very helpful if you have questions. As to the rest go explore and meet people in SL.

Regarding the camp chairs I think you have gotten the wrong idea of why most people are not happy about with them. It is precisely because of the things you are looking for like classes, show and tell, fun, silly events have been getting little or no attendence, that people have expressed displeasure about the chairs.

I dont think its about people not wanting to help new people or looking down at basic accounts, Its more the feeling that its a small investmentment to make in SL to go buy a small amount of L's that get a few things you want.

Instead of spending a huge chunk of time in camp chairs, you could spend time going to other types of events and exploring SL, that may have answered your questions and you may of met some nice people in the process.