Ignored Fraud in SL

It seems to me that there needs to be some form of checks and balance within the world of SL by the lindens... after all they claim that SL is a self sustained economy. It is a place where one can create and sell anything in order to profit in game and possibly create profits outside of game. However what do they do about fraud, what do they do about people who offer a product for sale, that product is paid for and all the party recieves up to date are excuses. I have heard everything from Defective Babies, To Undelivered clothing. Or in my case undelivered Product and Services. now I wont make the mistake of naming names nor the name of the store... its already been posted here in the forums. Also this Forum is about all forms of fraud everyone has suffered and not just the one I am suffering now. So if your the victim of fraud speak up... And if your a Linden tell us what you are willing to do to fix this situation... after all Fraud in the receipt of legal tender is a criminal offense... and since linden has always had a cash value... I am pretty sure a legal argument could be posed as to fraud and theft.

1.4 Second Life "currency" is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab's discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab.

You acknowledge that the Service presently includes a component of in-world fictional currency ("Currency" or "Linden Dollars" or "L$", which constitutes a limited license right to use a feature of our product when, as, and if allowed by Linden Lab. Linden Lab may charge fees for the right to use Linden Dollars, or may distribute Linden Dollars without charge, in its sole discretion. Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time. You agree that Linden Lab has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify and/or eliminate such Currency as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and that Linden Lab will have no liability to you based on its exercise of such right.



The old TOS specifically stated that the linden was worth nothing. I'ts NEVER been legal tender, anymore than an empty coke can has been.

They don't do anything about it.

coco

I keep hearing people claim that this says the Linden is worth nothing, that it is valueless, but I find NOTHING in this TOS quote or anywhere in the TOS that says so. It says LL will not redeem the Linden, it doesn't say the Linden is worthless.

But what the TOS says is not relevant to establishing value anyway. What people are willing to pay for something establishes value. Look at the Lindex. The Linden sells at around L$300 for $1US. That is the very definition of value!!!!

Even Linden Labs doesn't think the Linden is worthless. Look at http://secondlife.com on the left hand side where it says US$ Spent. That's actually Lindens spent converted to US$. Right now, it's a little over $300k. If LL thought the Linden was worthless, that number would be $0.

What are the facts? Not what is wishful thinking or rationalization.

The fact is that the Linden has value. It also meets most other definitions of 'money' (however it probably does not meet the defintion of 'legal tender', or at least as I understand it). Certainly it would be convenient to say the Linden has no value, then most US laws including tax, gambling, contract and fraud laws, would not apply. One cannot commit fraud when there is no value involved. But the facts, the reality, paints something quite different. The Linden has value, and fraud can be very very real.

( The way I read it - and i could be wrong )

As linden$ have no value they cannot be treated as currency - and therefore do not have the same rules.

They do however have the same rules as a barter system ( which is to say very few )

RL Example

If I say to my neighbour "I will give you all of the apples from my apple tree, in return for you building me a Gazebo" ( and they agree )

That is a spoken contract.

However if I then go ahead and deliver the apples and they do not build me a gazebo - I cannot go to the police claiming fraud.
( As I gave them the apples I cannot even claim theft )

I have to take civil action claiming breach of verbal contract.

The apples in this case are Linden$ - yes they have value - no they are not currency.

So I don't think Linden will be policing fraud in the cases you mentioned in the foreseeable future - they will just pass it back to you and say "deal with it yourself"

Sad, but in my opinion - true.

Fraud is intentional deception than results in a loss. So for it to be fraud they had to knowingly plan not to build the gazebo and still accepted the apples.

In the cases originally mentioned, they do sound more like contract violations than fraud.

You twisted this story...
Give me back my bloody apples.

Sorry I can't - they have all been recalled with faulty batteries,

Or was that the oranges...

No.....
......the oranges were clockwork.

On the currency;

The L$ has not backing. ie it is not backed by gold or any other precious commodity, so is not concidered legal tender.

It does have a value in that such as a baseball card has value. Someone somewhere -may- pay you for it. They may not. Current Lindex trends dictate that they will, but LL does not controll the Lindex, nor garuntee such.

Look at it as a (currently) sought after collectable instead of a currency. It's in-world value has not real world translation other than what "collectors" place upon it.

This is my outlook on such, and is in no way the offical outlook of LL, nor do I attempt to speak for the community as a whole. This is just how I precieve the L$ and the SL psudo-economy.

~Jessy

Jessy, you are not necessarily wrong in your view of the Linden, but why go to such a convoluted model? The model that it is just money fits the facts just as well. It certainly meets most major definitions of money.

BTW, I don't think 'legal tender' is defined as being backed by a precious commodity. Certainly, the US dollar doesn't meet that definition and I don't think it has met that defintion since since 1975. I believe legal tender is money that is recognized by a government to settle debts.

Not relevent in the slightest - neither is the USD, or most other currencies. Most currencies are what is known as fiat currencies - they have no actual tangible value.

Relevent in that it is my outlook, which I said.

My outlook also includes placing people who contibute nothing to posts but to demean others posts as trolls.

~Jessy

He wasn't demeaning your post he was correcting your mistake.

Who was demeaning anyone? I can't help it if you're factually wrong.

The issue of Currency is moot. The governments of the Several States, and Fed do not recognize the $L as currency, and never will. That the Lindens state that the tokens they sell have no value, and are not redeemable to them for cash is of no consequence. That the Lindens have opted to protect their business model by refusing to back the L$ is also of no consequence. In the SL market the L$ has a percieved value, and that is an important consideration for a victim of fraud... There is a commonly agreed exchange rate between $L and $USD.

From the Wiki:

In criminal law, fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them — usually, to obtain property or services from him or her unjustly. [1] Fraud can be accomplished through the aid of forged objects. In the criminal law of common law jurisdictions it may be called "theft by deception," "larceny by trick," "larceny by fraud and deception" or something similar.


Clearly from this definition, only value need be involved.

It's not in the TOS because it's a police matter, or a civil matter, depending on how the victim seeks remedy. The Lindens are not required to report a petty crime that does not involve them directly, and doing so might get them in more trouble than if they remain silent on the issue.

Going to the legal authorities might work, but we are talking about such small amounts of value that it's just silly to expect a complicated investigation that would involve forcing the Lindens to divulge priveliged user info, and then building a case on the interactions of various peices of software that may or may not be at fault, and trying to prove criminal intent.... Good luck getting a prosecutor to take that case on a typical loss of a few $USD...

If enough users complained about one user, or .com then I could see a DA becoming interested, but this stuff is such small potatoes.... Get back to me when the $L is trading at a significant fraction of a $USD..... Then we'll see some hucksters getting strung up...

Til' then it's the Law of the Jungle, and a healthy dose of Caveat Emptor!!
=B-)