Is this really Lindon Labs thread version 2
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Paulismyname Bunin
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 243
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12-13-2005 08:37
So here is your answer. PS What do you lot think abut this quote from that article "Note to freelance Second Life builders: Charge more next time." ---------------------------------- http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickableculture/entry/second_life_opened_to_real_world_business_venture/---------------------------------- 'Second Life' Opened to Real-World Business Venture written by Tony Walsh | posted on July 12, 2005 @ 11:44 am tagged Business Culture Design Other Space Second Life According to Linden Lab's Vice President of Product Development Cory Ondrejka, an area of the Second Life has been hired out for use by an yet-unnamed bank to teach kids about managing money (this area is most likely to be private, since it involves minors). A group of users known for outstanding Second Life creations was recommended as potential hires by Linden Lab. The bank paid some or all of this group around $17,000USD to create content for the services project--a "steal" for the bank, as Ondrejka put it, in terms of expenditures. Note to freelance Second Life builders: Charge more next time. Ondrejka revealed few details on the bank deal during a presentation at the recent Games+Learning+Society Conference, but he suggested an official announcement was pending. The move by Linden Lab into the services space shows that the company is willing to monetize its hallmark virtual world in ways other than membership and land fees. Should more companies be interested in Second Life as a "turnkey" solution to their online gaming project needs, it looks like Linden Lab will be happy to send the business to a select group of Second Life builders. Which is great news if you're part of that group.
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Phoenix Psaltery
Ninja Wizard
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,599
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12-13-2005 08:42
From: Paulismyname Bunin So here is your answer. PS What do you lot think abut this quote from that article "Note to freelance Second Life builders: Charge more next time." ---------------------------------- http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickableculture/entry/second_life_opened_to_real_world_business_venture/---------------------------------- 'Second Life' Opened to Real-World Business Venture written by Tony Walsh | posted on July 12, 2005 @ 11:44 am tagged Business Culture Design Other Space Second Life According to Linden Lab's Vice President of Product Development Cory Ondrejka, an area of the Second Life has been hired out for use by an yet-unnamed bank to teach kids about managing money (this area is most likely to be private, since it involves minors). What part of this is news to you? This is referring to Wells Fargo Bank's project, which is ancient history. P2
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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12-13-2005 09:25
From: Phoenix Psaltery What part of this is news to you? This is referring to Wells Fargo Bank's project, which is ancient history.
P2 Considering that Stagecoach Island isn't even out of Beta yet, that's a pretty weird definition of ancient history 
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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
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12-13-2005 09:29
Big shock, Linden Labs uses customer labor so they don't have to pay normal rates to career professionals. Actually, the big shock is that their customers either don't realise their value or are willing to cut their wallets to boost their egos. I have had some passing curiosity about the legality of it all... especially insofar as the IRS is concerned. for all intents and purposes, they have to say this is 'volunteer work' to get by reporting the compensation to the IRS.... but there is precedent with regard to 'volunteer work' in this regard.... I suppose LL's position would be that they were simply intermediaries and, as such, have no liability. I suspect the IRS would deem otherwise. Mebbe I'll call and ask. 
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Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nations
Join date: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 941
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12-13-2005 09:51
Is it not like buying a car then getting some of your friends to paint it for you? I guess it all depends on how much you pay your friends...
The question should really be, were Wells Fargo aware when they hired the resident group that they were not actually Lindens? or was this actually a coup for resident groups by getting the contract in prefference to the Lindens?
I have been asked to take part in a short series of presentations to industry groups in the UK regarding new technologies as part of a New Technologies Initiative thingie. I'll be talking about developing in virtual envronments, SL in particular, and I know there will be questions regarding costs, installation and setup.
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-------------------------------------------------------- Surina Skallagrimson Queen of Amazon Nation Rizal Sports Mentor
-------------------------------------------------------- Philip Linden: "we are not in the game business." Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitue my own."
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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12-13-2005 09:56
My understanding is that this is a partnership between LL and bedazzled and the money to pay bedazzled didn't funnel through LL's bank account, which I think would be a significant determining factor in all of this, tax wise.
I believe the money was Wells Fargo -> some new media agency -> bedazzled.
There was also a Wells Fargo -> some new media agency -> LindenLab I think to pay for servers and what not. But that might have directly come from Wells Fargo. Not being on the inside, I can't say for sure.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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12-13-2005 10:11
From: Cienna Samiam I have had some passing curiosity about the legality of it all... especially insofar as the IRS is concerned. for all intents and purposes, they have to say this is 'volunteer work' to get by reporting the compensation to the IRS.... but there is precedent with regard to 'volunteer work' in this regard.... I suppose LL's position would be that they were simply intermediaries and, as such, have no liability. I suspect the IRS would deem otherwise. Mebbe I'll call and ask.  This is contract work, all that is needed are 1099's.
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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12-13-2005 10:12
Or better yet....pay in $L.
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Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
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12-13-2005 10:14
From: Cienna Samiam Big shock, Linden Labs uses customer labor so they don't have to pay normal rates to career professionals. Yup. I can't really blame them though. Like it or not, it IS smart business. Why pay more when you can find a way to pay less? From: Cienna Samiam Actually, the big shock is that their customers either don't realise their value or are willing to cut their wallets to boost their egos. I'm sure both mentalities are true in some cases, but as someone who's done 3 jobs for LL so far (and been paid peanuts), my viewpoint on it is somewhat different. Let me explain. The first job I did for LL was a bunch of avatars they had requested. I was flattered to have been asked to do it, so I didn't haggle over price. I believed impressing them with the quality of the work could lead to bigger and better things, so price wasn't important to me the first time around. The second job was the Camden Opera House replica for PopTech. This time I negotiated a bit harder and got what I asked for. I was told I was the highest bidder by a longshot (which I found to be really suprising, considering the amount in question), but they were willing to pay for the quality. Because PopTech is a well known national conference, something that could be a great benefit to all of us if the SL portion went well, I was more concerned about making sure SL was well represented than I was about any amount of money, but I still wanted to make sure the 4 days I spent on the build yielded more than minimum wage. The third job was that little starship bridge for Help Island. A Linden came by my place (the Sci Fi Museum in Indigo, if anyone doesn't know) and described to me what they were looking for. They were hoping to find an off the shelf product they could buy cheaply just as any other person in SL might. I told them I didn't have anything suitable on sale at the moment, but I could whip something up. This was on a Friday, and by Monday I had it done. Again, I was less concerned about money than I was about making sure things went well on Help Island, and I figured having my name on the place might be good for business, so I didn't ask for much. I'm fully aware that LL has paid me much less than I deserve, but I don't mind. It's not about me not realizing my value, and it's not about ego. Each job I've done for them has been either something I was excited about or something I've looked at as an investment. Do I wish I'd been paid more? Sure I do, but as I said earlier, I can't blame LL at all for looking to get things done as inexpensively as possible. It's not like anyone else in SL would have paid me more for the same work. From: Cienna Samiam I have had some passing curiosity about the legality of it all... especially insofar as the IRS is concerned. for all intents and purposes, they have to say this is 'volunteer work' to get by reporting the compensation to the IRS.... but there is precedent with regard to 'volunteer work' in this regard.... I suppose LL's position would be that they were simply intermediaries and, as such, have no liability. I suspect the IRS would deem otherwise. Mebbe I'll call and ask.  That's an interesting question. I'd be curious to know their answer if you do call. What I can tell you from my experience is that it's certainly not considered volunteer work. Legally, it's either contract work or casual labor, depending on the amount. In either case, it's tax-free for them. The way it's worked is I've sent them invoices and they've sent me checks. Because of the invoices, I assume they're considering me a contractor for tax purposes. I will be filing a 1099 for anything that is a taxable amount. They do pay for some jobs with $L, but what I've been told is that that's frowned upon by their VP of finance, which is understandable. Cutting a check is much easier for accounting and for preventing legality questions.
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Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
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Phoenix Psaltery
Ninja Wizard
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,599
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12-13-2005 10:19
From: Eggy Lippmann Considering that Stagecoach Island isn't even out of Beta yet, that's a pretty weird definition of ancient history  Well, the NEWS that some RL company is doing a project in SL, and particularly as it appears to have been brought up in response to the "Is this eBay auction really LL?" thread, makes it ancient history, particularly on an SL scale. It was practically necroposting. P2
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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12-13-2005 10:26
From: Phoenix Psaltery Well, the NEWS that some RL company is doing a project in SL, and particularly as it appears to have been brought up in response to the "Is this eBay auction really LL?" thread, makes it ancient history, particularly on an SL scale. It was practically necroposting.
P2 Ok ok dont hurt me 
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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12-13-2005 10:30
From: blaze Spinnaker My understanding is that this is a partnership between LL and bedazzled and the money to pay bedazzled didn't funnel through LL's bank account, which I think would be a significant determining factor in all of this, tax wise.
I believe the money was Wells Fargo -> some new media agency -> bedazzled.
There was also a Wells Fargo -> some new media agency -> LindenLab I think to pay for servers and what not. But that might have directly come from Wells Fargo. Not being on the inside, I can't say for sure. Just posting to say that your understanding is correct, and "some new media agency" is called Swivel 
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