On the Forum's Closing
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Charissa Korvin
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2005
Posts: 138
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09-02-2006 11:45
I was just reading the Second Opinion and thought I would quote an article on the hot-button issue of the forums closing as it makes a few interesting points yet shines a light on others. From: As We See It from Second Opinion Blog Your Way to the Future The recent forum change announcement caused the rise of a debate: can a blog replace a forum as a tool for community communication? Forum structure supports a many-to-many discussion style that is well-suited to a community founded around a specific and common topic. Sounds like Second Life, doesn't it? So why close some of the forums? As groups get larger and larger, it becomes increasingly difficult to manage the community discussion. Some hypothesize that once a group exceeds 150 people, the quality of conversation starts to degenerate. In a forum context, this loss of quality means more moderation is needed to make sure questions get answered and disruptive or negative posting is minimized. A closer look at the Second Life forums suggests that the larger, general boards suffer from this problem. The smaller, more tightly focused sub-forums such as the content creation discussions tend to need a great deal less intervention to stay positive and on topic. Blogs are a product of the Internet, which as we all know is essentially a publishing medium. Content is easy to update and keep current. Add in multiple authors and you now have the basis for a new type of discussion, with several people contributing information and ideas. The blog becomes communal through comments and trackbacks, where the dialog rests. Unlike the group discussions on the forums, blog discussions tend to be more bi-directional while remaining focused. It also has broader reach; hence the development of the word 'blogosphere', suggesting a wide circle of connected discussion. Imagine if all the Resident forums and blogs were connected to the Linden blog to further enrich the conversation! We think it's time to test this idea of a Second Life blog community where many ideas can be proposed, many comments can be offered in response, and trackbacks spread the conversation about Second Life to more and more venues across the Web. Agree? Disagree? Let us know - send us your Letter to the Editor - with your Second Life username - and we will publish a representative set in the next edition of The Second Opinion. In this article it seems to me as though they're saying it is acceptable to categorize the entire SL forums as a waste of negativity and backwash when a lot of the unpleasent portions of this forum lie solely in the General Discussion forum. That said, I wonder why it's so difficult to simply close that one. Why not just terminate those forums that are not Topic-Specific (such as new releases, scripting help ect)? After all, anything outside of posts that find their way into those forums could be/should be removed without question or warning. I understand this doesn't help the open-communication between the community as a whole-issue, but I imagine that'd be better than just saying "this whole basket of eggs is bad and all gotta go". |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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09-02-2006 11:50
"Agree? Disagree? Let us know - send us your Letter to the Editor"
Will they honestly listen when they are overwhelmed with "don't dump the forums"?
Lewis
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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09-02-2006 12:02
From: Lewis Nerd "Agree? Disagree? Let us know - send us your Letter to the Editor"
Will they honestly listen when they are overwhelmed with "don't dump the forums"?
Lewis No. They know that the forums are inherently unscalable. So they're ditching them. THe Lindens have zero interest in playing police force.
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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09-02-2006 13:26
From: Lordfly Digeridoo No.
They know that the forums are inherently unscalable. So they're ditching them.
THe Lindens have zero interest in playing police force. I don't really buy the scalability thing. Jeska could be allowed to slap 90 day forum bans on anyone being mean for the next few weeks, and it would clean this place right up. Been mean? Click, click, gone. TOS section emailed to you, end of subject. Once the first two dozen or so are banned, it would be a decent forum and not much to maintain. As it is, we are *all* getting banned, and the Company gets to watch the mean-spirited literally run their de-facto forums. Is this better for them?
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 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Charissa Korvin
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2005
Posts: 138
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09-02-2006 14:24
From: Desmond Shang I don't really buy the scalability thing.
Jeska could be allowed to slap 90 day forum bans on anyone being mean for the next few weeks, and it would clean this place right up.
Been mean? Click, click, gone. TOS section emailed to you, end of subject.
Once the first two dozen or so are banned, it would be a decent forum and not much to maintain.
As it is, we are *all* getting banned, and the Company gets to watch the mean-spirited literally run their de-facto forums. Is this better for them? I don't buy it either and agree with you 100%. I also find my self wondering if it stops here with just the forums. After all, Second Life is supposed to be, as it says on the cover page, Second Life is an Online 3D digital world, Imagined, created and owned by it's residents. I guess since the forums aren't technically part of that world, they can do with it as they wish? And what else will they, Linden Labs, in the future, decide is not part of that 3D digital world that we, the community, supposedly own? I think they are setting a precident with this decision that the community may see the expansion of in the future. When you consider that they are/have made decisions that directly affect the community and how it interacts with it's self, without the prior consent of that community, it personally forces me to ask the question: What do we really "Own" here? As part of the 3D digital world I imagined, created and own, my imaginary virtual land has a forum, with sensable moderators and reasonable communication with it's community. I think I like my dream land better. *goes back to sleep* |
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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09-02-2006 15:39
From: Desmond Shang I don't really buy the scalability thing.
Jeska could be allowed to slap 90 day forum bans on anyone being mean for the next few weeks, and it would clean this place right up.
Been mean? Click, click, gone. TOS section emailed to you, end of subject.
Once the first two dozen or so are banned, it would be a decent forum and not much to maintain.
As it is, we are *all* getting banned, and the Company gets to watch the mean-spirited literally run their de-facto forums. Is this better for them? I was talking to a Linden at SLCC. They said at the time of the convention, they had over 7000 pending abuse reports. That's in-world and forums combined. Seriously. That's with, what, 250,000 "active" users? What happens when it becomes 1,000,000? Jeska and company can't possibly handle that workload. I'd rather they focus on in-world stuff rather than watch us rip each other's heads off on the forums.
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Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
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09-02-2006 16:08
Desmond has the right idea.
This is not an AR situation. There are Linden Moderators that can VERY easily read the forums and act out.
There are those on this forum that repeatedly push and push and dare the Lindens to do something about it. Well, it is time for the Lindens to call the bluff. It would not take anytime at all to clean this forum up. I think we have seen lately how ridiculous some people can be and if they were sent packing it would make for a better enviornment.
The problem is the Lindens wait. They wait for the AR then they act when they get around to it (sometimes). If they view something here it should be like in world. Instant but fair action. If someone can't get the hint after the first 30 day IP pan then they can live in 3rd party forum land. It would not take that much to fix the forums.
I believe the TOS and forum rules are pretty clear about personal attacks. How many do we have to witness over and over? Not many if the Linden mods (not resmods mind you because they can only submit for review) would act instantly when they see it. All it would take is some proactive action instead of sitting in wait for someone to blow the whistle.
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From: Natalie P from SLU Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality! From: Ann Launay I put on my robe and wizard ha...
Oh. Nevermind then.
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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09-02-2006 16:19
From: Macphisto Angelus Desmond has the right idea.
This is not an AR situation. There are Linden Moderators that can VERY easily read the forums and act out.
There are those on this forum that repeatedly push and push and dare the Lindens to do something about it. Well, it is time for the Lindens to call the bluff. It would not take anytime at all to clean this forum up. I think we have seen lately how ridiculous some people can be and if they were sent packing it would make for a better enviornment.
The problem is the Lindens wait. They wait for the AR then they act when they get around to it (sometimes). If they view something here it should be like in world. Instant but fair action. If someone can't get the hint after the first 30 day IP pan then they can live in 3rd party forum land. It would not take that much to fix the forums.
I believe the TOS and forum rules are pretty clear about personal attacks. How many do we have to witness over and over? Not many if the Linden mods (not resmods mind you because they can only submit for review) would act instantly when they see it. All it would take is some proactive action instead of sitting in wait for someone to blow the whistle. ARed for personal attack. Whoops. That was easy. That's 5 minutes of a Linden's life I've wasted sending them a bogus AR. Times a million. Yes, excellent use of time. :/
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-02-2006 16:32
Non-scalable. As in can't be done.
No game or platform or service provider with more than 250k members can possibly enforce any rules within their game, or run any forums, or enforce any rules on them.
Can't be done.
coco
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Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
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09-02-2006 16:33
From: Lordfly Digeridoo ARed for personal attack.
Whoops. That was easy. That's 5 minutes of a Linden's life I've wasted sending them a bogus AR.
Times a million.
Yes, excellent use of time. :/ Um, read again. Slower this time. AR is NOT the answer. Linden Mods acting BEFORE waiting for an AR is. Proactive means before. 
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From: Natalie P from SLU Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality! From: Ann Launay I put on my robe and wizard ha...
Oh. Nevermind then.
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Charissa Korvin
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2005
Posts: 138
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09-02-2006 16:39
(I apologize in advance, but this couldn't be avoided...)
The music begins with a quiet piano medely...
(Music to the tune of Nine Inch Nails-Every day is exactly the same..)
*Up camera on a desk in a moderately stylish office down at Linden Lab. Your focus immediately drawn to a man in the middle of your screen who sits behind the desk staring blankly into a computer terminal....*
It's Philip Linden, tie disheveled and collar undone, looking rather beside himself as the glow from his monitor illuminates his anguished face...*
*And he begins to sing....*
I believe I can see the future
Because I repeat the same routine
I think I used to have a purpose
Then again, that might have been a dream
I think I used to have a voice
Now I never make a sound
I just do what I’ve been told
I really don’t want them to come around
Oh, no.
Every post is exactly the same
Every post is exactly the same
There is no love here, there’s only more flames
Every post is exactly the same
I can feel their eyes are watching
In case I lose myself again
Sometimes I think I’m happy here
Sometimes, yeah, and then I log in…
I can’t remember how this got started
But I will tell you exactly how it will end
Every post is exactly the same
Every post is exactly the same
There is no love here, there’s only more flames
Every post is exactly the same
(spoken)
I’m writing on a little piece of paper
I’m hoping someday you might find
Well, I’ll script it into something
They won’t look inside…
I am still inside here
A little bit starts rezzing through
I wish this could have been any other way
But I just don’t know, I don’t know,
Who else wants to sue!
Every post is exactly the same
Every post is exactly the same
There is no love here, there’s only more flames
(Every post) *repeat 4 times as Chorus is playing*
(There is no love) *repeat 2 times*
Every post is the same!
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Venus Vaughan
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2005
Posts: 66
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09-02-2006 16:49
All i want to know is where are all the link going to be .. im a shopohiloc lol want to know where all the links are going to be for this ... All i know is fourms are good for 2 things Drama and hatered ... im glad to see them leave !!
All i want is place where i can search to shop and for tech info ... this is my 2 cents worth
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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09-02-2006 18:41
From: Lordfly Digeridoo I was talking to a Linden at SLCC. They said at the time of the convention, they had over 7000 pending abuse reports. That's in-world and forums combined. Seriously.
That's with, what, 250,000 "active" users? What happens when it becomes 1,000,000? Jeska and company can't possibly handle that workload.
I'd rather they focus on in-world stuff rather than watch us rip each other's heads off on the forums. That's a valid point. Here's an imperfect, but valid solution. 1) "Lay the smack down" in forums with the ban-hammer, hard. 90 days first offence, one year second offence, &c. Suddenly there will be a completely different forum culture, and all those repeat forum AR's will be gone. Right now we have anarchy, so you bet there are a lot of broken windows and the abuse reports that go with them. There are companies with far more customers than this one, and they have forums just fine. By being tough, but effective. 2) In-world - I believe the Company is already working toward an imperfect solution. Why do so many people prefer to rent from Anshe, Prok, Hiro, Adam, Alliez, or myself? One of the reasons - we ban griefers, we do what we can to please those that pay us to stay in our sims. Perhaps this is why the mainland was finished - to push the scalability problem to the islands, where AR-like stuff, sim restarts, cleanup and so forth will be largely dealt with by residents. I would LOVE to see a trial of 'tough forums' for several weeks, since we are all going to be banned from them anyway. Take out say, the top 2 dozen or so mean folks, starting Tuesday. I'll bet there won't be any need to get rid of the forums, after that.
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FireFox Bancroft
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 134
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09-02-2006 20:50
Nice but I think this song more closely describes SL than the other songs on that album.
Right Where It Belongs
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See the animal in it's cage that you built
Are you sure what side you're on
Better not look him too closely in the eye
Are you sure what side of the glass you are on
See the safety of the life you have built
Everything where it belongs
Feel the hollowness inside of your heart
And it's all
Right where it belongs
[Chorus:]
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems
What if all the world you think you know
Is an elaborate dream
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks
Would you find yourself
Find yourself afriad to see?
What if all the world's inside of your head
Just creations of your own
Your devils and your gods
All the living and the dead
And you really are alone
You can live in this illusion
You can choose to believe
You keep looking but you can't find the woods
While you're hiding in the trees.
[Chorus:]
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems
What if all the world you used to know
Is an elaborate dream
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks
Would you find yourself
Find yourself afriad to see?
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