ManHunt Mall

ManHunt Mall owner has disapeared and i saw a stall go up for rent and i took it and the person left in charge EM lied to me about the person who rented it and bascally would not help until my partner in the game steped in and once he said he let several of his stalls in her malls go she then offered to help so she shows favortism and does not help the vendors and most of the things at manhunt are not for men they let many things that are female into the mall. When i told EM i was going to forums she tried to bribe me so i would not. Money isnt important honesty is and she lied to me about so many factors saying there were other stalls free and that i could have another when there were none that maybe i should go to another mall owned by her so she can get more money from me. All she does is promotes herself when she doesnt even want to help the vendors who want spots. If your starting out she cant really be bothered with helping u.

If you rented it, and did not get an empty stall, then threatened to take this to the forums, (assuming she did refund it), why didn't you take the bride money?

Beth,

Keep in mind that the person in question is not only a part owner of a mall, she is also a mall promoter and the mall she may have been trying to offer as an alternative might belong to someone else and she is doing her job promoting that mall.
Her job is to fill malls. She is one of the best in the field.
She is not there to set up vendors, merchants or displays.
That is the responsibility of the mall owner, assuming they provide that level of service.

I am sorry to hear that you had a negative experience at the mall in question.
What is it that you sell? Perhaps you might fit well at the Skyline.
I DO provide assistance, as time permits, getting newcomers to the merchant scene set up.
I also provide, free of charge to mall tenants, retexturing of the interior of their rented space.
The mall also has a nightclub at the top of the mall with space available free to tenants so that merchants can hold special events to promote their wares (Art showings for Galleries, Fashion Shows for Clothing and Skin Designers, etc...)

If you feel that you would not fit well at the Skyline, there are a number of other malls that would be happy to rent space to you for varying levels of rent and including varying levels of service. There are even one or two that are trying to go one better at providing goods and services targeted at the male av population.

I am in-world almost every night after 5pm SLT. IM me inworld and we can talk about it.

Just to clarify I'm a friend of Beth's and not really a party involved in the despute per say...

Beth waited for a booth to come available at the mall in question and when one did, she saw it, and even though the prior renters items were still there, she went ahead and rented the booth, figuring the person would come get them and she could put her stuff out. She IM the person who's stuff was still in the booth asking if they could come and remove it and they told her no they wouldn't do that, and then she IM'd the mall owner(s) and asked them nicely if they could return the stuff so she could put hers out, and they told her no too, and if I remember correctly she was told the prior renter was a friend of the owner that responded to her and that the prior renter stuff wasn't getting returned.

She doesn't want her money back, she wants the space that she rented and paid for.

I being a person that sells stuff in the game too, knows that if it's a rento that is used and you have to pay it, that you get notified 7 days prior to your rent being up for renewal so that you can go do it at that moment or when you got time to keep your booth that you have instead of waiting until that rento sign pops back up again. So maybe I'm being biased here but she had every right to rent that spot and ask for that stuff to be removed, since the prior renter hadn't renewed that booth.

JMO

No.

If someone hasn't paid their rent, the issue is between the mall owner and the tenant.

She has NO RIGHT to come in and try and supplant someone else's mall spot. She was way out of line.

Angelina,

I can understand the frustration that Beth must be feeling, however, in a free market economy like SL, the best thing she can do is vote with her dollars.
If she is unhappy with the level of service provided, she should go find a location that provides the levell of service she is seeking. Unles the location she wants is desirable independent of service level. Of course, at this point, she has two choices as a legitimate renter of the space... she can either set up shop amidst the other stuff and end up giving someone else free rental space until they remove their stuff, she can accept another space at the mall (if there is one), or she can demand a refund and take her business elsewhere. She really has no bargaining chips to demand anything of the Landlord. This is unfortunate, but true. Renting in SL is on an ad-hoc basis, and as such, the renters have no power and must developa trust relationship with their landlords. If the landlords are not honorable, then it is time to find another landlord.

I have knowledge of some of the players in this vignette. The promoter is one of the best in her field, but she does not stray outside her job. If the mall owner in question has told her that there are stalls when in fact there are not, the promoter has only that info to go on. Since she does not own the land in question, she also does not have the power to return items from a rented stall. SInce I do not know the owner of the mall in question except by reputation, I cannot speak to the situations described by Beth; I can only say that there are other malls who would gladly rent to her and her business.

But if they haven't paid their rent ... even after the repeated notices most Rentos give ... is it /their/ spot? Just because it /was/ theirs ... and might be again in the future, doesn't mean it actually /is/.

That is what the Rentos are supposed to do ... show a spot is available when the rent hasn't been paid.

If I saw one on a spot I was interested in, I'd probably IM the renter and ask if they planned on renewing, or the mall owner to ask if they /thought/ the person planned on renewing ... before putting money into the Rento.

But Im not entirely sure that I would go so far as to claim that there is "NO RIGHT" to just pay the rento, and try to take possession of the space I just rented.

I guess Beth and I see this alittle more differently, because to me, when someone doesn't pay the rent to keep their spot in a mall or where ever they are renting and that FOR RENT box comes up, it means 'lookie a spot open for rent', I don't know how long that RENT box was up it could have been days for all I know, I didn't rent the space and I've never been to the mall in question, but either way she rented the spot, thinking that the prior renter or the mall owners would get the stuff removed for her and found out that she was really wrong about that.

Lo,

I agree that the unpaid rent issue is between the mall owner and the tenant; however, if the mall owner did not intent to re-rent the space to anyone once the tenancy elapsed, he should have removed the Rent-o-matic from the space so that it was not active and taking money. He could also have extended the rental period for anumber of days, essentially granting an extension to teh current tenant. The mall owner is also in the wrong.

I agree that Beth was unwise in her attempts to "jump into" the spot in question, but she also asked for trouble by not inquiring first.

There is often an assumption that once money changes hands, renters have rights. Renters have no rights, per se. Renters have privileges granted to them by the landowners. If the landowners want to they could screw people right into the ground with impunity and say nothing more than "Caveat Emptor".
Why don't landowners do this?
It's bad for business.
Period.

Beth had a bad experience. Hopefully she will learn at least the following two things from this:

1) the tenant has no real power except as granted by the customer service attitude of the landowner. You should seek a landlord you can trust, because LL has refused and continues to refuse to step into these matters.

2) When shopping for mallspace, acting like hungry scavenger when it comes to space rental does not create a healthy respectful relationship with the landlord. At the very least, it gives the landlord a swelled head about how important his rental spaces are, and at the worst, creates a very hostile rental environment that I know I would never want to be part of.

Well I know that Beth can answer this better than I can, since this is her situation and all, but I know that she had been waiting for a booth to come available at that mall and I'm not sure how long that spot was up for rent before she went ahead and rented it. It could have been hours or even a couple of days for all I know. She didn't want to go to another mall, she wanted a spot in that one.

Personally I would have taken the refund offered and walked away from it, and found a different place and if someone asked me about that mall in question I would have told them not to rent there, but that's just me, I'm not Beth and she believes that she had every right to rent that spot because the rent box was up saying FOR RENT, and personally yes she did, and thinking that the stuff would be removed and hasn't been, and from what I've been told by her she can't put anything out because that booth is at maxed prims already with the prior renters stuff in it.

She didn't threaten the owner by saying she was going to come and postit in the formuns that I know of, she told her she was going to post it in the forums, it wasn't a threat to the owner, she was just stating a fact of what she was going to do. Beth is a very honest person and felt like she got ripped on the deal with the spot at the mall. It wasn't about the money it was about the fact someone didn't pay their rent. Heck I know of alot of places that will return the renters stuff as soon as the FOR RENT box pops up because the renter didn't extend their rent prior to that sign coming back up again. Because they figure look they got the rento notices 7 days prior to the rent being up for renewal and had the chance to do it for 7 days.

Fully agreed Alain.

It's just, if you think about it, it's rather rude to move in on someone else's space without knowing the circumstances.

I have been in Beth's position -- waiting for a spot to become free at a certain mall -- but I, luckily, asked the mall owner if I could take that spot, or if they needed to speak with the tenant first (this was waaayy back over a year ago). They said they needed to speak with the tenant first.

That's ok, and it makes perfect sense. Having some third party IM you and inform you that they've taken over your spot in a mall because you were late paying rent is incredibly ... er ... dog eat dog.

Angelina - you said it perfect about beth and better than I could put into words. She strongly feels it's her right, and I agree 100% since the rento didn't say to wait until stalls are cleared. It's the fact the manager is showing different faces to different people that is bothering her and causing her to get upset over this. And me as well to be honest.

Jim - agree with ya completely.

Alain - I respect your views, as it's obvious you're knowledgeable about SL commerce and have been around the sim-block a few times. I'm hoping I can shed a little more insight into the situation that hasn't been said, as beth is my partner in game as well as my RL Girlfriend.

It's a matter of principle. Beth's not the kind of person to post to the forums out of spite or get worked up over nothing. The straw that broke the proverbial camel's back with beth today was watching the manager of manhunt in question try to rent HER stall to another person, and then bribing beth with lindens to keep quiet about it. Beth wasn't threatening, she just felt that it was wrong, she was morally against what the manager did, and she wanted to let others know. Beth had every right still to that parcel of rental land considering she has more than a week in the rento with option to renew, especially considering the manager booted the previous stall owner from the group needed to put items down. And still she tried to rent it to another party. That's what torques me.

Manhunt was the first mall I rented at in SL, back when I didn't have a focus for my creative dabblings and had a handful of tattoos, men's swimwear, and other oddities I had created and wanted to sell. It was also the best place I found at the time for men's fashion all under one roof for shopping. Jens pacer (the mall and rent-o owner) is MIA according to the mall manager, which is making the entire venture quite unstable in my opinion. All the mall managers who do it on behalf on the landowners I've encountered before have their own control of the rental system, like Timmy Night. I have nothing but respect for that man, er tiger.

When you seperate the management from control of the physical mechanism for renting, tension can arise. I understand the manager of Manhunt is having a rough go of it. However that still doesn't excuse the way she went about handling beth's situation. First she told Beth that she can't have the stall after she rented it. The rentos at manhunt say nothing about not renting stalls with stuff in it, like Anshe's plush malls do. The original renter hasn't been around for weeks, and yet she still favored his right to the stall over the beth, who just dropped 300 lindens into the rento. And today beth happened to be around manhunt checking up on stalls when she overheard the manager trying to rent her stall to another person. according to the manager, she doesn't have rights to return items. How is she going to rent it to someone when both beth and the previous tennant's prims are there? And why didn't she accept the fact beth is the current rent-o renter and may actually WANT to use the stall? even if there is stuff from the previous tennant?

I'm also not lashing out at anyone's particular views here, if my words did seem a little forceful. I'm just a bit passionate about this issue and would really just like to see Beth get her stall that she rented, cleared of all items, and paid up for all the time she lost since she couldn't put her items out in full. Or watever other solution she'd prefer.

But now my question is, where is jens pacer? and what's the future of manhunt? I'm not all that comfortable renting from a mall where the person who controls the rent-o's has been away from the game for a while without an ETA to return. I think a large part of this problem would NEVER had time to gestate and give birth to something that would deeply upset a person so terribly to cause them to post to the forums to warn others, if the owner was around and on active duty.

Just my opinion on the matter, happy to discuss any details I'm privvy to.

Alex

and PS, beth makes menswear as well as children's clothes. she has a fantastic line of camos for kids and adults, as well as a ton of other men's clothes.

woot I applaud you Alex on this, you said it better than I ever could but I was trying to get the point accross but you said it so much better than I did. LOL

I am the mall manager at Manhunt Mall and Beth Brokken rented a spot using a rento and then asked me a few days later to remove the previous vendors goods. I told her I didnt have the power to do that but I would IM him. I then offered her a vacant spot nearby that was available free of charge but she declined my offer. She wanted the one she paid for she said. I also IM'd the mall owner and asked him to come online so that the previous stuff could be cleared. He didnt reply to my IM and my direct email.

Then a few days later Beth contacted me again about progress and I couldnt offer the alternative spot any more so I offered her a vacant larger corner I keep for emergencies that she could move into rent free. I also offered to refund her 300L too. She then said that it was completely unsatisfactory that she was losing business and she was threatening to go on these forums. I must admit that no one likes bad publicity so I asked her how much would she like for lost business and I offered her 1000L (that would come out of my own pocket) and asked if that was sufficient but she said no.

All she wanted was her stall and I couldnt give it to her. She covered up the previous vendor's goods with boxes and again complained to me. I had no alternative but to repay her her rental money out of my own pocket and I ejected her from the group. Even after that she paid me the 300L and I had to return it again. I have very limited powers and offered her a way to display her goods at the mall free of charge and yet she deliberately refused me. Why did she do that? To make a point of principle or to cause trouble? I wish I knew. All I know is that if something like this happens again I will just do the same thing again. There are some 80 spots at Manhunt and this is the first serious problem I have encountered since July and in this case my solutions to appease Beth were clearly unacceptable. I have had similar situations occur to this before and common sense prevailed, the vendor took the spot that was vacant elsewhere that I offered and the vendor realised that this was a workable solution. he could continue to sell his goods at the biggest male mall in SL as he intended. Clearly this point of principle with Beth was more important than selling her goods as she refused my offer to take these very attractive spots I offered her.

I am a friend of Elaine Marlowe, she talked about this problem to me because she's need to confirm that she did the right thing...
Elanie sent to me the entire transcript of they discussions, time after time, Beth and her talked, I garantee that Elaine tryed without sucess to please Beth and explained prefectly what was happening and she actually been very generous with her.
I think the reason of this out of proportion story is that Beth, tryed to have her way without understand that poor Elaine had her hand locked behind her back, because she's not the owner of the Mall, tha other fact is that Beth wanted to cause problems to Elaine just because she's was not getting her way.
I know this look like I am trying to defend Elaine, but if someone want the entire transcript of all the conversations between Beth and Elaine I can show all of them so u can see that Elaine did everything and more of her duties.

Regards to anyone u read this note,

Barbarella

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