I just don't understand....
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Perseus Ni
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 19
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08-11-2006 12:16
Cross post from blog commants: From: someone RE: Barbarra Blair Says on the blog comments:
August 11th, 2006 at 8:32 am I don’t think I understand exactly what you think will replace the forums.
Telling people to start their own websites is just like telling everyone to buy private islands. You get a collection of fortressess, not a community. This is the single most, to the point statement I have seen. Thank you Barbarra. That said, I will add my L$.02. while other games are going to a centralized forum on their own site (see UO and EQ and even the failing, stagnant AW). Why would the games go to a Central site, especially when other sites like statics had vibrant forums that the community used? To bring the community CLOSER together, not farther apart. Even in the wake of the most controversial move in the history of MMO's was made by SWG, SOE did not limit discussion of it on their forums unless it degenerated to flames or spam. I really don't understand this move at all. Perseus Ni
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---------- Perseus Ni - Newbie Land Owner
Former Citizen of the following worlds: Ultima Online - Chesapeake - 5 years Everquest - Prexus - 3 years SWG - Wanderhome - 1 year Eve Online - 1 year Asherons Call - Thistledown - 1 year
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-11-2006 12:20
cuz they want everyone to buy private islands
seriously, thats their plan
this is a platform not a community
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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08-11-2006 12:21
From: Perseus Ni Why would the games go to a Central site, especially when other sites like statics had vibrant forums that the community used? Stratics has an operational Second Life forums already. http://sl.stratics.comLove to see you there! Lewis
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-11-2006 12:24
From: Lewis Nerd Stratics has an operational Second Life forums already. http://sl.stratics.comLove to see you there! Lewis last thing these people want are more resmods try second citizen its Lewis Approvedand no resmodding!
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Perseus Ni
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 19
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08-11-2006 14:03
From: Mulch Ennui cuz they want everyone to buy private islands
seriously, thats their plan
this is a platform not a community So, if I understand what you are saying, they only care about a 3d web browser/commercial content vision? Hate to say it, but AW is a better platform for that then SL. AW will run in a browser, loads are quicker, and it had native support for web content, eliminating the need for double work and easing updates. Oh, and BTW, AW hasn't had many takers either....
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---------- Perseus Ni - Newbie Land Owner
Former Citizen of the following worlds: Ultima Online - Chesapeake - 5 years Everquest - Prexus - 3 years SWG - Wanderhome - 1 year Eve Online - 1 year Asherons Call - Thistledown - 1 year
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-11-2006 14:06
From: Perseus Ni So, if I understand what you are saying, they only care about a 3d web browser/commercial content vision? Hate to say it, but AW is a better platform for that then SL. AW will run in a browser, loads are quicker, and it had native support for web content, eliminating the need for double work and easing updates. Oh, and BTW, AW hasn't had many takers either.... AW took wells fargo from the "love machine" that is SL yet they still dont learn its a sad truth , welcome to 3d innerwebs the metardverse it could have been so different too, thats the most frustrating part of all
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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08-11-2006 17:38
Well, over a year ago I was making a passionate case to Editorial Hare about the importance of having a forums for the community. About how they might be viewed as a "drain," but the advantages they offer in the long run are well worth the headaches. Certainly horrible things were taking place on the forums when I joined. I made attempts to get it fixed for quite a while, but ended up actually agreeing with Editorial, over a year ago, that the forums should be completely scrapped. I remember that day so well. I came more and more to this view as I myself continued to walk the thin edge of saying my views and risking being banned from the game for it. I racked up a ridiculous formal warning and a suspension. I saw the same thing happening to others. Joining the forums for me was like being plunged into scalding water. Closing them is, for me, like the end of a long and unbelievable nightmare. It really wasn't until I joined another forums (Second Citizen) some months ago that I realized just HOW badly I'd been affected by perservering in these forums. It felt so unusual not to have to weigh each word carefully, to not feel like my every word might be my last, and I might find myself canned from the game. The truth is, I never lived like I have in these forums, and hope never to again. So I can't join any save-the-forums bandwagon. Of course, I still believe that a community/game/platform/okra or whatever really should have a forums. And I believe that closing them down sends a very bad message to the residents. Which is why LL should just bite the bullet and go ahead and HIRE unbiased people to do the forums professionally, and not out of their back pocket, as a horrible burden, which is how Philip has always (erroneously) viewed the forums. People who care about the forums, have clear rules and actually enforce them for everyone. And Philip should value their work. As to the current situation, I still don't see how these conglomerated, difficult to navigate, and by definition self-centered blogs are supposed to replace even the bare minimum a company needs to have to address its customers. The blogs are the Lindens play-toy. They are not a good way to keep customers informed. I would suggest, if I were to post to Robin's blog, which I haven't yet (waiting to hear more), that they should keep a certain amount of easy-to-access forums INCLUDING THE CLASSIFIEDS where a customer can quickly see the things they need to know, such as announcements, update things, etc. Those blogs - really, it just absolutely is going to be no good for those things, as far as I can tell. But I'm not really pushing that, either, because I can easily see that turning into something like, "Well, ok, we'll have a page on clothes, and one on houses, and one on resident blogs, but we'll just put in those people we like." I'm afraid, see, that having just a LITTLE of what they once had for us will turn into a terribly undemocratic, elitist sort of thing, which will prove advantageous to some only. coco
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Xceptopec Wolfstein
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 153
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08-11-2006 17:59
I'd like to point out one of the worst aspects of this decision will be. For the most part a lot of people are using the forums here - more people than any other OFFSITE SL forum and that by its self is a pretty cast iron reason for leaving the foums intact. By having more people here rather than elsewhere the Lindens can excersise control over what is discussed and can hand out suspensions to anyone caught discussing exploits and/or how to activate them. By forcing people to use external forums that the Lindens can not control and are not allowed to issue bans or suspensions from SL based on posts is yet another glaring error that is critical. Lindens can not use content from external sites as evidence of mis-doings, and external forums may not demand the users use the same name as they have in the grid, thus making it a lot harder to deal with people who discuss and/or use exploits in the grid.
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Osgeld Barmy
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
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08-11-2006 18:37
since they are shutting down the anger spout forums i wonder if they will peek out from under their tinfoil hats and look @ them with non paranoid eyes
(ok what the hell is he rambling about now?)
RSS, currently you cant get rss feeds to these forums unless you are logged in, its almost a fair argument (if your my grandmother) with certain areas such as classifieds, rss feeds would be quite nice to access for lsl, thus allowing LSL objects to read and phrase things like "NEW PRODUCTS" or "HELP WANTED"
but personally if they want to glue the community together they need to make one themselves, point in example the linden blogs
the old system could be accessed inworld via rss (well my website accesses the rss and phrases it for lsl) the blog feed was encoded in utf-8
the old blogs were limited, only a few lindens and the rss feeds updated whenever anyone placed a comment
the new system (same software btw) is much better, more lindens, more info, better rss feeds but now the blog feed is magically windows encoded, which course totally flubs the lsl side of it
another much older example is color choice in content creation, use the color picker its based in decmal values (0-255) use it in lsl its float values (0.0-1.0)
while these are definatly no major thing, they are super examples of how the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing, which IMO is one reason LL feels like a dog chasing its own tail, just going in circles of stupidity, causing them alot more work, and us more and more aggervation untill someone snaps and post's a "LL U SUC" post
back on topic... is it the worst decision ever? i dont really think so, it does need some community work, that involves us and THEM bouncing around ideas to get what really needs to be on the forums. if they lean the other way~platform they have a WHOLE LOT of work ahead of them =/
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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08-11-2006 19:37
If they just wanted to get rid of the so called cesspool of drama, they would have closed General, Sandbox, Land & Econ, PoliSci,... The Content Creation and Classifeds are going, too, and who is hurt most by this? Noobs and the individual players. They've taken away their stipends, too. Maybe they expect the annoying portion of the newcomers to go away out of boredom without play money and assistance.
The techies and geeks could parlay this deficit in the assistance arena into consultant jobs for higher end platform end users. Hmmm. I wonder how many of the older players who no longer need the forum's helpful side and who are coming in to bid good riddance would benefit from this scenario.
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hush 
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Khashai Steinbeck
A drop in the Biomass.
Join date: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 283
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08-11-2006 19:50
Hello? They are trying to sell SL Am I the only one who sees this?
Hell with my sig. No point now.
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Damien Ferris
Registered User
Join date: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 55
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08-11-2006 20:18
From: Khashai Steinbeck Hello? They are trying to sell SL Am I the only one who sees this?
Hell with my sig. No point now. Do you have proof?
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Xceptopec Wolfstein
Registered User
Join date: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 153
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08-12-2006 03:11
To be honest I would be inclined to agree that they are trying to get rid of it, before it bankrupts them 12 months down the line because they make another even more stupid mistake.
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Elle Pollack
Takes internets seriously
Join date: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 796
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08-12-2006 03:23
From: Margaret Mfume If they just wanted to get rid of the so called cesspool of drama, they would have closed General, Sandbox, Land & Econ, PoliSci,... The Content Creation and Classifeds are going, too, and who is hurt most by this? /QUOTE]
AFAIK, the Content Creaton forums are staying, and there is a chance that popular demand might keep Classifeds open...that is, the pleas are being examined but no promises being made. So, might.
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*********************************************** "Ya'll are so cute with your pitchforks and torches ..." ~Brent Linden SL streams a world, can you also stream a mind?
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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08-12-2006 08:36
From: Khashai Steinbeck Hello? They are trying to sell SL Am I the only one who sees this? It has seemed to me for some time now that LL is grooming and shopping SL.
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Crissaegrim Clutterbuck
Dancing Martian Warlord
Join date: 9 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
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08-14-2006 01:12
From: katykiwi Moonflower It has seemed to me for some time now that LL is grooming and shopping SL. Aye. Grinding down the rough edges, polishing it into a product, and pretty much turning it into a $14.95 toaster.
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Jeffrey Gomez
Cubed™
Join date: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,522
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08-14-2006 01:25
From: Khashai Steinbeck Hello? They are trying to sell SL Am I the only one who sees this? It's been pointed out a few times in other threads (since buried in the dozens of "forums are closing" posts). Quite a likely possibility. Funny thing is, I just watched a game I played at one time (Horizons) go through the process of being bought out by a bunch of clueless goons. The first thing they did? Locked the forums and IRC to the party line and made the thing a military state. And no, it did not work in their favor. I'd prefer not to see a repeat of that drama here.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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08-14-2006 01:54
From: Mulch Ennui last thing these people want are more resmods Moderators aren't a bad thing, they're actually there for the good of everyone. The problem is when people can't be bothered to follow a few simple rules to keep things pleasant for everyone. The problem here is a badly implemented and operated moderation system, with no accountability, and most definitely an unfair application of moderating. There are things that are definitely reportable (even repeats of things that appear on the police blotter) that get ignored, then there are other times people get slapped with warnings and bans for no reason whatsoever. Not forgetting, of course, that any appeal gets ignored, and evidence removed, so there's no way to get a decision overturned when it's blatantly wrong. That is, of course, assuming you figured out what it was you did in the first place, as you aren't told. Lewis
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Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
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08-14-2006 02:06
I agree. Mods can be a valuable tool. I think the way it is handled here is a bit unproductive (not saying the resmods are unproductive just that the support system is not in place for them). My wife and I were talking about that today. What should be happening is moderators do the mod work of deleting the posts that are not in guidelines, moving the ones that get misplaced, etc. There should be a person such as Torley who oversees this group. If an action is taken, it should be obvious why according to the TOS (which I see a good job of the reasons being presented by the mod who closes etc). If there is a disagreement then it goes to the supervisor (aka Torley or whomever) who as a Linden has the ultimate say on it. It appeared to me that resmods didnt get a lot of support when things went astray. There should have been quick decisions made by a Linden and that Linden should have spoke up and stood behind the resmod in that fashion (either upholding the decision or reversing it, but at least being there for it).
Obviosly things went wonky on this system. But I think it could be done in a way that is productive for all involved... were the forum areas needing it not being closed.
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From: Natalie P from SLU Second Life: Where being the super important, extra special person you've always been sure you are (at least when you're drunk) can be a reality! From: Ann Launay I put on my robe and wizard ha... Oh. Nevermind then.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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08-14-2006 02:15
From: Macphisto Angelus It appeared to me that resmods didnt get a lot of support when things went astray. There should have been quick decisions made by a Linden and that Linden should have spoke up and stood behind the resmod in that fashion (either upholding the decision or reversing it, but at least being there for it). With Stratics, when warnings are issued, you are given a copy of the post that violated the rules, with the relevant part highlighted, and an explanation that this broke rules A, E and J, also reproduced so you know exactly what you have done (a simple copy/paste). This is an excellent basis for appeal, or simple acceptance that the post was wrong, as you have all the facts in front of you - as will anyone you appeal to. However, all I got here was an email saying basically I had received a forum warning, and that was it - no date, no detail, no explanation. How am I meant to not do it - whatever it might have been - again, and how do I know that it was not just a resmod getting revenge over beating them at a game of Tringo or something? There are many better ways to handle the forum problems than simply closing them down and pretending that every player is happy. A number of solutions have been offered - yet Linden Lab are taking the simple - or is that coward's - way out. The forums are an invaluable tool in community-building for ANY online game. All it seems I will have any need to come here for now is to check grid status and to visit Lindex. Lewis
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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08-14-2006 03:31
We could talk and talk about this issue till the forums go down. Isn't going to change the their minds. All we can do is take it up the tailpipe and hope it doesn't hurt too bad. :/
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