Poll Defaming Individuals or groups is fair game?

Hi, This post "names names" but only in the sense of stuff that is already public knowledge and there are no personal attacks involved.

I have been noticing lately how the TOS in regards the forum seems to be unevenly applied in the case of some individuals over others. The example that comes to mind this morning is that of when someone slanders/libels or defames an entire group of people in Second Life and what happens as a result.

The contrasting situation is this:

Hank Ramos, a respected SL player was chucked out of or left a group under bad circumstances and started a few threads about what he thought about his former group-mates. These threads were almost universally closed right away. He continued to try to talk about the issue, being very careful as to make it not personal to individuals and only talk about the group.

They were closed anyway.

Ulrika Zugzwang has left a similar group of people and now starts thread after thread about these people and how bad they are. These threads are highly personal, they talk about the group, but they ascribe personal motivations and describe the individuals in the group variously as "Corrupt, thieves, liars, despots," etc. She even starts entire threads about the actions of individuals in this group and singles people out as thieves or as having "broken the law" and various other statements, all without a shred of evidence to prove it.

Not only have these threads not been closed, not only has Ulrika not been penalized in any way, but they have actually proliferated.

On top of that, due to the recent return to her of the very forum where she maintains these attacks, if one wants to AR them, the abuse report goes to her. And the Lindens apparently are okay with almost anything going on in a group forum, simply regarding it as "infighting."

There is an obvious inequity here, and I know that most people seemed to support the idea that Hank should have been made to stop posting at the time. So.. should Ulrika be forced to stop posting all this crap or not?

Seems to me like it can't be both ways.

OMG! Ulrika used to be a Conservative Christian patriot!?!?

-Kiamat Dusk

Quit whining when you are doing exactly the same thing.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

She also showed evidence her IP rights were violated. Oops.

and remember..

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Seems to me if you wanted to make all this go away, you could simply change the friggin name already.

I hate to say this, but it *is* infighting. No one who was not part of the group has been involved, so far as I can see.

Also, I happen to believe in freedom of speech. So yes, I think that people should have the right to say anything about groups that they want. The groups can respond. Then the readers can make up their own minds.

One thing that you should consider, is that people don't just read the posts out of the blue with their wide dewy, innocent child-like eyes and take everything said as God's own truth. People are generally skeptical, and they *do* consider the source.

I've spent a good ten years reading Usenent where with the exception of a few groups, there is *no* moderation and it seems to work pretty well. I will say that in my own experience, yelling for the oposition to be silenced is not a tactic that tends to engender a lot of sympathy.

Far more effective in my experience is to calm down and refute the other parties assertions calmly and cooly, and ignore any inflamatory statments, and refrain from making any one's self.

But yelling for censorship, saying, "My oponent is saying things that I don't want anyone else to hear!" is *not* productive. It makes it look as if your own arguments aren't sufficent to refute whatever's been said, and makes people wonder what it is that you're afraid of finding out. In this I'm not just talking about your case, but in general.

I mean, after all, look how well calling for secrecy is working out for the US goverment.

Over my years of being on internet forums I have seen invasions of LUE, Something Awful, rival boards, and even one neo nazi racist forum to try and attack the forums I go to. Strangely enough the forums with the least moderation weather this attacks the best. Now no moderation can just have things get out of hand but moderation is something best saved for the proper time. THe SL forum members, by in large, need to grow a thicker skin too.You may have the right to free speach, but you do not have the right to not be offended by what someone says.

oh god

inserting obligatory "this will not end well"

No, just, "this will not end."

I have absolutely ZERO reguard for Ulrika, and I have NO clue about what is going on in in Neualtenburg.

But I bet my ass that any drama she sees on here she feeds off of, so may I say.....don't feed her and maybe she'll go away?

Don't get me wrong. I know that's easier said than done when one feels pissed and needs a place to vent.

Edited to add: Well I DO have a clue, but it's beyond my ability to do anything about it

I think it's okay when Ulrika does it.

Ulrika has never left the group. Though we have ended our association with your Sim/City.

Just sayin'

Yes, *very* well said. This posting should be stamped on everybody's eyeballs. America claims to be the country of free speech - why then do so many individual Americans seem to oppose it?

Ya got me. Sad really.

Only idiots belive in total free speach. It's a fantasy, and was never intended by the consitution. The constitution prevents the *government* from regulating it, not private companies - it's fine there. For good or for ill, and I'm not going to make myself look like a fool by crying "Free speach! Free speach!" if someone censors me on a message board.

The deeper, political aspects of your post would be derailing this thread.

Great Gorean Auction, this thread is certainly controversial!

How is it Dianne gets to name names in this thread while complaining that other people do, but she can't bring herself to say, "Neualtenburg"?

Oooh, that wascally Ulwika!

*shakes fist*

So far 33% of the vote says Dianne should stop attacking me and Ulrika.

Wheres the option for "No, but you brought this on yourself, so in this one case I'll ignore it"?

It's in Port Neualtenburg

I've closed this thread as it's inappropriate for the forums--please see the forum Guidelines parts about personal disputes and appealing discipline.

I'm not keen on all the happenings here, and frankly, I think I'll need a Cliffs Notes version. :\

At the core of it:

If it's harassment, it isn't allowed per the Community Standards. (When referring to abuse, refer to the Community Standards for brevity--the Terms of Service is a more extensive document which isn't so focused on appropriate behavior, but the legalities involved.)

In regards to moderation,
So it's not cool to make accusations of the sort--I personally wouldn't do it. And no, I don't think defamation is a good thing to do either. We don't have rules to say "You should always be nice!" nor is that realistic. But calling someone a "liar", for example, isn't necessarily against the CS unless it's part of some bigger pattern--which brings us back to harassment.

If we missed a thread that's inappropriate and should be closed, you can let us know by clicking the /!\ icon to the left of the bad post. And if you'd rather not because of the group moderators, then [email]forummaster@secondlife.com[/email] can be emailed.

About the Neualtenburg group forum, just like inworld groups, we've historically defaulted to the Founder's wishes. I'm certainly not okay with "almost anything going on" if it's against the Community Standards. CS violations aside, at the same time, I believe some things are best resolved between members of the group themselves without undue outside interference.

A tough situation so hope it will get better.